Wing Chun vs Wing Tsun

[Ediaan]

Unfortunately this is fairly common in certain organisations. There is a school not far from my own that has this approach. One of my students went there first (silly boy) and was allowed to watch a class and then told that to join he would have to pay £200 and sign a contract, I've had others come to me asking if they can train but asking me not to include them in photos etc because they are still under contract and this particular organisation has a reputation for threatening legal action. It seems to come with the larger organisations that operate on almost a franchise basis

This is so sad, my Sifu encourages us to also practice other martial arts, because we already have such a versatile art ( we have escrima and knife applications included in our training ). Organizations who insists on making prospective students sign contracts are doing it because, to them, it is only a business. I have met many trainers who teach purely for the love if it and encourages their students to be versatile in the arts. Why should we not have the right to choose if we want to study a third or fourth art as well?

 

[geezer]

Unfortunately this is fairly common in certain organisations. There is a school not far from my own that has this approach. One of my students went there first (silly boy) and was allowed to watch a class and then told that to join he would have to pay £200 and sign a contract, I've had others come to me asking if they can train but asking me not to include them in photos etc because they are still under contract and this particular organisation has a reputation for threatening legal action. It seems to come with the larger organisations that operate on almost a franchise basis

Ethically indefensible. Worse yet --the way some of those organizations go after their instructors if they decide to leave the fold. And, even if you are legally in the right, the organization may be willing to outspend you to make an example of you. Can't win a suit in court if you aren't willing to spend the many thousands of dollars necessary. Happened to someone I know.

 

[jeff_hasbrouck]

Yes. When I started I was made to sign a contract. I didn't read the fine print because I was naive and believed that all Sifus we're of an honorable posture. I pretty much thought it was a liability waiver.

His name is Sifu Sonnenberg and he is located here .
The situation created by him reminds me of Cobra Kai Dojo from karate kid
HA!

I know Sifu Keith personally and his WT is sub-par at best. I've rolled with him quite a few times. I was a newly promoted first tech when I rolled with him last at a seminar in Chicago under my old sifu (Will Parker)...

Anyways, tell him to shove that paper **** up his ***.

Hope you get it resolved man, and remember stay away from the LT org in the US, they are all a bunch of bastards.


All the best,


Jeff

 

[jeff_hasbrouck]

It's really sad - I don't know why, or how, some of these things have happened in the WT organization. I train in the EEWTO, so directly related to Leung Ting's IWTA, and there is a very open approach. We have the same grading structure, etc, but in classes it is not uncommon for student grades to be working on drills and lat sao that incorporate some Biu Tze level material.

And really, it shouldn't matter too much (the sharing of little nuggets of gold . Heck, the second Chi Sao section has a double-grab and pull+pivot that is from the third form, and that Chi Sao section (2nd) is taught, of course, to student grades.

Recently our Sifu had a seminar on the long pole, and people of various grades could attend (including some higher-ranked student grades). I couldn't make it, sadly, but I asked the question of a friend: is it normal for people at various levels to start training the pole? I was told that our Sifu had been asked this before, and his response was something along the lines of: "It takes many, many, many years to become skilled with the pole - so it doesn't hurt to begin basic pole training/exercises early."

I'm not sure why exactly, but something seems to have gone wrong with the WT org in the US. There are some very experienced guys there, and yet we see how things have become so 'splintered'. :-(

IMHO the only guy that is still associated with the IWTA is worth a **** is my old sifu. He is definately a master. But he can't teach very well. He never shows up to class, and usually makes others do it for him.

I've rolled with all the others, Sifu Keith (Arizona) and Sifu Mike (Chicago) and those guys are just terrible. I think the only reason sifu will is good is because he goes to HK and Europe and trains with those guys. And he used to have Sifu Webb to train with.

The problem is that when people started leaving in the 90's people started getting all *** hurt that they didn't want to train with them and started strangling the remaining students and spreading rumors about the ones who left.

My old sifu has told me countless times that people leave because he refuses to give them material above their level and that they won't amount to anything because he is the only one qualified enough to make people better. He is such an arrogant prick.

Honestly there is no fixing this, just let their "civilization" crumble and make way for the new improved era where people are more tolerant and don't have a problem training with others, seeing other peoples points of views without acting like a bunch of f'in kids.

Anyways, all the best in your training!

Jeff

 

[geezer]

Jeff don't waste your time. Brocklee hasn't been active on this forum for at least five years, and frankly he was a flake. He loved to trash WT in favor of his lineage of WC. Ironically, I am a personal friend of the WC man he claimed was his sifu. And he told me that Brocklee only trained for a short time. Little knowledge, big mouth. Or, if you prefer the old Chinese proverb from LT, "The bottle that is half empty makes the most noise when shaken."

Now, as far as Sifu Keith goes, for many years he was my si-hing and friend ...I thought. We knew each other since 1979. We even kept in touch occaissionally during all the years I left the martial arts. Sent Christmas cards and such. But, when around the end of 2007, I decided to train with some "rebels" he totally stopped speaking to me. That silence speaks volumes.

But you know what? Just gotta let it go.

 

[jeff_hasbrouck]

Geezer,

Your right, honestly, I'm still a little ***-hurt over it.

Many of those guys were very close friends and mentors. And when I broke, and everyone found out all the "rebel's" I associated with they treated me like I was sub-human.

Hurts my heart to know that people I would have backed no matter what turned on me with viscious slander and absolute conetmept for me as a person.

And I really don't apperciate certain NASty folks speaking about my lack of credibility and personal skill when honestly I rolled over them. And their self promotion of being "only qualified", or "only traditional; legitamate etc"... BS strikes a nerve lol. And honestly I meant no offense to anyone on here or out there who are/was friends with those people. But the fact remains that they are a bunch of *******s, and I really have no problem letting everyone know how fake they are as martial artists, people, and "instructors".

My problem is I always get sucked into writing down my opinion when people bring up the IWTA, and your right, its better to just let it go.

All the best,


Jeff

 

[Nabakatsu]

I get sucked into saying things I shouldn't too.. let it go.. let it go.. yes.. that seems like a good idea.