Wing Chun vs Kyokushin Physical Analysis

[Tez3]

Remember me...........if I ask a question it's only to gain knowlegde no more no less. Why look for a confrontation when the confrontation initially lays within you.

I'm sure you didn't look for confrontation, its just that there's a history of posts that have the title 'style V style' that set peoples backs up the minute they see it, many people like myself look through the new posts first and when that pops up, it's oh no there's going to be an argument lol! I know it would have made a longer title if you'd put something else but it would have been worth it. The tone is then set for a friendly discussion rather than posts getting anti.

 

[coffeerox]

WC is principle based? so is this implying that there are no principles in Kyokushin? Because I know that to not be the case.

This style versus style crap is tired, every time you try to list this or that you end up excluding the human factor and what is implicit rather than explicit within the style.

but he didn't really list anything now did he. that was someone else.

 

[Flying Crane]

Tactile Sensitivity - This is where Wing Chun excels and Kyokushin in general lacks.

Lightning Speed - This is where Wing Chun excels and Kyokushin in general lacks.

Non Telegraphic Movement - This is where Wing Chun excels and Kyokushin in general lacks.

Close Range Combat - This is where Wing Chun excels and Kyokushin in general lacks.

Simultaneous Counter Attack - This is where Wing Chun excels and Kyokushin in general lacks.

Economy of Movement - This is where Wing Chun excels and Kyokushin in general lacks.

Minimum Use of Brute Strength- This is where Wing Chun excels and Kyokushin in general lacks.

Based On Natural and Scientific Laws - This is where Wing Chun excels and Kyokushin in general lacks.

Directness - This is where Wing Chun excels and Kyokushin in general lacks.

Conservation of Energy - This is where Wing Chun excels and Kyokushin in general lacks.

Centre Line Theory - This is where Wing Chun excels and Kyokushin in general lacks.

Use of Deflection - This is where Wing Chun excels and Kyokushin in general lacks.

Hand Trapping - This is where Wing Chun excels and Kyokushin in general lacks.

Maximises Use of Mass and Acceleration - This is where Wing Chun excels and Kyokushin in general lacks.

Upper and Lower Body Locked at Waist - This is where Wing Chun excels and Kyokushin in general lacks.

The One Inch Punch - This is where Wing Chun excels and Kyokushin in general lacks.

Able to Fight In the Dark - This is where Wing Chun excels and Kyokushin in general lacks.

etc etc etc.

Do you know for sure that Kyokuskin is lacking in all this? Or that Wing Chun excells beyond Kyokushin in all of this?

 

[mook jong man]

Do you know for sure that Kyokuskin is lacking in all this? Or that Wing Chun excells beyond Kyokushin in all of this?

Oh I was just making assumptions , the same thing the original poster did when he assumed that Wing Chun people are somehow lacking in toughness.

Remember when you assume you make an *** out of U and ME.

 

[Flying Crane]

Oh I was just making assumptions , the same thing the original poster did when he assumed that Wing Chun people are somehow lacking in toughness.

Remember when you assume you make an *** out of U and ME.

fair enough.

 

[qwksilver61]

most people never go beyond what is taught during a regular class,both
Sifu Emin & Sifu Michael Casey once told me "we expect more out of our
fighters"......train like you fight....two cents....

 

[Nicholas82555]

You must have gotten an "A" in reading comprehension

 

[dosk3n]

I see the benfits of being able to take a hit. However you dont need to train a certain style to take a hit. Having a high stamina and being all round healthy and toned from general training will allow you to be able to take a hit and sparing can help you mentally take a hit.

My opinion on styles that use training tactics to strengthen there body is more of a power play. To intimidate others. The same as the all blacks (rugby team) have a "dance" used to intimidate the other team.

I think its an effective measure for intimidation and I think that was its original intention as like I have said you do not need to directly train your body to take a punch.

 

[Poor Uke]

Re. OP :

In my experince of Wing Chun I would defnitly agree that it dose not contain a high degree of physical conditioning. My old WC Sifu put it this way (I'm paraphrasing) "you should be doing that yourself, why waste valuable time here". Which I kind of agree with, unless of course you have no idea how to do it!

You also have to remember that if you slight WC in any precieved way (which I actually think you didnt), mook jong man will fire off a post of WC platitudes quicker than you can one inch punch a phone directory.

 

[geezer]

Do you know for sure that Kyokuskin is lacking in all this? Or that Wing Chun excells beyond Kyokushin in all of this?

Maybe a knowledgeable Kyokushin practitioner should post a list of it's strengths.

I really know almost nothing about the system or it's founder, Mas Oyama except I'm told...

1. It's a very "hard", external system of Karate, similar to Shotokan.

2. It trains for maximum power and the "one-punch kill" concept.

3. They do a lot of "hard body" conditioning and sometimes test this by breaking boards and sticks on practitioners' limbs and bodies.

4. Like most Karate ryu, it is a longer range system than WC, stressing long-bridge punching and kicking and favoring linear techniques.

5. Like most Karate ryu it employs a 1-2 block and counter rhythm rather than the simultaneous defense- attack of WC, except that the blocks are so aggressively delivered that they are attacks (as limb destructions).

6. They hold tough full contact tournaments which, inexplicably don't allow head punches, making it really tough to pair against WC. I don't know if they can kick to the head.

7. There is a youtube clip that everybody seems to have seen in which a pathetic excuse for a "WC fighter" goes up against a very accomplished Kyokushin fighter (in a Kyokushin tournament) and, predictably, gets his clock cleaned. LOL.

8. When I was still a kid, everybody interested in the MA talked about Mas Oyama breaking the horn of a bull or steer, or something. I think I saw a picture of it.

...OK. That's my level of ignorance. Now how about somebody who actually knows something about Kyokushin posting for a change!

 

[Tez3]

No 2...where's the fun in punching only once?

Sorry can't speak for Kyokushin, can do you a good Wado Ryu though.

 

[coffeerox]

I like the one hit finish concept. Bruce Lee was a major proponent of this idea, especially after the Wong Jack Man fight, he was so displeased that he sought out to refine his Wing Chun concepts. Other well known Sifu that I know of that teaches and emphasizes this (that I've seen) are Gary Lam (WSL lineage) and Michael Wong.

My friend and I joke that Bruce wanted to "beat a master in 3", 3 meaning 3 minutes haha! If it's not 3 minutes it's no good! Personally I think that Bruce's ego was a bit too big considering that taking a master is no easy feat and definitely not in 3 minutes.

That idea is a great self-defense concept though. Why fight longer when you have to, further putting yourself in more risk? Against someone out in the street, and with your proper training, you should be able to finish them in a very short period of time.

 

[geezer]

I like the one hit finish concept... Against someone out in the street, and with your proper training, you should be able to finish them in a very short period of time.

This is so true. But regardless of your style, never assume that one punch will do the job. In my experience, nobody hits harder than a good boxer, but how many one-punch knockouts do you see... or fights that end on the first exchange of blows in the opening of round one? Sure it happens... but not very often. That's why you've got to be able to follow up a good hit and not give your opponent a chance to recover!

 

[coffeerox]

This is so true. But regardless of your style, never assume that one punch will do the job. In my experience, nobody hits harder than a good boxer, but how many one-punch knockouts do you see... or fights that end on the first exchange of blows in the opening of round one? Sure it happens... but not very often. That's why you've got to be able to follow up a good hit and not give your opponent a chance to recover!

true That's why WC practitioners keep going even as their opponent is on the way down It's one of the things I love most about WC.

 

[zepedawingchun]

but how many one-punch knockouts do you see... or fights that end on the first exchange of blows in the opening of round one? Sure it happens... but not very often. That's why you've got to be able to follow up a good hit and not give your opponent a chance to recover!

I'm sorry geezer, you asked for it. I've seen quite a few of them . . . . . in the UFC, WEC, and such. However, I believe like you, in following up and giving them as many punches as I can fire off to knock em out.

 

[Tez3]

I'm sorry geezer, you asked for it. I've seen quite a few of them . . . . . in the UFC, WEC, and such. However, I believe like you, in following up and giving them as many punches as I can fire off to knock em out.

True but they weren't intended as a 'one punch' KO, the fighters carry on striking until told to stop by the ref.

 

[qwksilver61]

the most common thing that I hear,(coming from the MMA schooled folk from here in central Florida) is the kill shot to the jaw,which they say will take the fight out a man,the other is to blitz, slam and mount on the ground.
The only way I have found to overcome this attack is to keep my head out of his range and to utilize all of my tools,kicks,knees, elbows.It's hard just to demonstrate this, in reality there is no fair fight,especially if this guy is a tank,you have to hurt your opponent.Yes,a well trained hard stylist is a formidable opponent,and you might end up with a broken limb (hence why you should close the gap).I used to train under Gert Dieffenthal (2nd deg.no mcdojo here) in Europe who trained directly under Master Kwon Jae Hwa (one of his schools is in Ft.Lauderdale,Master Kwon Jae Hwa is still kicking),these people didn't play games,no padding,at least the school I attended.The transition from hard to well... almost soft was a little difficult at first.Wing Tsun most certainly conditions a person,to me it's likened to a steel coil and a whip.Two cents.....

 

[Tez3]

the most common thing that I hear,(coming from the MMA schooled folk from here in central Florida) is the kill shot to the jaw,which they say will take the fight out a man,the other is to blitz, slam and mount on the ground.
The only way I have found to overcome this attack is to keep my head out of his range and to utilize all of my tools,kicks,knees, elbows.It's hard just to demonstrate this, in reality there is no fair fight,especially if this guy is a tank,you have to hurt your opponent.Yes,a well trained hard stylist is a formidable opponent,and you might end up with a broken limb (hence why you should close the gap).I used to train under Gert Dieffenthal (2nd deg.no mcdojo here) in Europe who trained directly under Master Kwon Jae Hwa (one of his schools is in Ft.Lauderdale,Master Kwon Jae Hwa is still kicking),these people didn't play games,no padding,at least the school I attended.The transition from hard to well... almost soft was a little difficult at first.Wing Tsun most certainly conditions a person,to me it's likened to a steel coil and a whip.Two cents.....

It may but for a 100% shot go for the liver, Bas Rutten would kick to the liver but even a hard slap will have you on the floor throwing up every time. I've been knocked out and I've been liver punched and KO is def better if you're on the end of it!! Doesn't matter how big you are or even how tough - the liver shot is the fight winner for sure, jaws may go or maybe not.

 

[qwksilver61]

c'mon, help me somebody....

 

[qwksilver61]

missquote....sorry,not meant for you Tez3