Wing Chun styles you'd like to learn

[Argus]

I suppose it depends on the Eskrima or FMA that you do. In our PCE system we work mainly off the slightly front-weighted stance familiar to anyone training Latosa Escrima Concepts. It's similar to a JKD stance with the rear heel raised. I find that it's a very natural position to use at distance with a baston or other weapon, and it transitions very nicely to a back-weighted WC/WT stance as you close. Gotta run. PM me if you want to know more. -- Steve

We use the same stance in Lameco. I just have the habit of becoming back weighted in FMA, and front weighted with the heel raised in WC if I'm not careful

 

[Vajramusti]

Joy, I believe what you say to be true. But I was not commenting on the quality of his instruction and certainly do not intend to disparage Master Fong's teaching. My point is simply that when you change branches, typically you have to re-learn even fairly basic material.

In the case of switching from the Augustine Fong branch to the Leung Ting branch, I had to completely re-learn my stance weighting and turning. This was not too difficult for me since I was in my early 20s, still very inexperienced in WC, and I had not "hard wired" the Fong method into my muscle memory. It was, however, much more difficult for my former instructor to change, since regardless of his teaching qualifications, he had spent considerably more time training those movements.

I recall being several days into one of our training sessions when all the inexperienced students (including myself) had adapted to the LT method, but our former instructor was lagging behind ...and getting a lot of criticism from Leung Sifu for being unable to quickly unlearn his previous habits!

Now, at age 60, I have spent considerable time training the LT stances, steps, and so on. At this point it would be very hard for me to start over in another branch where my basics where considered "wrong".

BTW Joy, you know me well enough to know that I don't view the differences between our branches in terms of "right and wrong"! However in my experience many, perhaps even most WC people do view things that way. It's one of the reasons I spend more time on this forum where we seem to attract a higher percentage of open minded individuals.

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understood Steve

 

[TSDTexan]

Same here, WCKF92. I'd like to share and learn with people, but don't really want to get into a whole new lineage from the ground up.

I began WC briefly back in '79 with an instructor in the Ho Kam Ming - Augustine Fong branch of the Yip Man lineage, and then switched to LT's WT branch. I had to unlearn all the "wrong" stuff I had previously learned in the Fong system and rebuild muscle memory aligned with the WT version. It took years. Now I train with an old kung fu brother under LT who later learned with Keith Kernspecht in Germany. Now, teaching in his association, I had to re-learn his American variation of the German variation of LT's Hong Kong variation of Yip Man's lineage of WCK. That's more than enough for me!

On the other hand, I also work with the DTE guys who don't exactly teach Wing Chun, ...in fact they don't exactly teach techniques at all. They mostly just teach me how to apply what I already know more effectively through concepts and principles that align very nicely with WC. At my age, this is a much better use of my time than having to empy my cup and start over again learning "the true WC" of another lineage or branch.

The problem with just working out with and learning the different approaches of other lineages is the whole cult-like attitude that so many groups have. They don't believe in openly sharing, rather they jealously guard their branches "secrets". If they do work out with you, it's often only to prove that they are "right" and either convert or, at least, to humble you -- their opposition.

If WC is to succeed as a vital and effective fighting system we've got to get over ourselves and not be afraid to share, to learn from each other, address our weaknesses, and build on our strengths.

Which is why I will never claim to be a wing chun stylist. I just happen to have a crapton of WC books and paraphernalia. And I fabricated a Mook Jong Dummy from a railroad tie.
And parked it next to my two makiwara.

And I don't chi sao... (no... not at all) if I call it kakekumite that means its karate... yah.. thats right.

This way I avoid the sibling rivalry.

 

[TSDTexan]

Movement is movement...

I agree...

Learn to move without compromising structure and posture. Numbers are numbers.

In a real world test you wont care about weight distribution. But accepting incoming energy without collapsing, and converting that incoming into outgoing forward energy.

 

[TSDTexan]

In response to the OP...


Hung Suen WC.. in its bamboo section of training... it has a ground fighting curiculum

Which might be a little bit like this:

Or Eddie Chong in Sacramento California.
Pan Nam Wing Chun....

Sifu Eddie is also formally trained in White Eyebrow... the result of a White Eyebrow Master getting severe internal injuries from fighting other masters.

The WE master plead for Pan Nam to teach him 5 petal plum form. He learned it and through chigung healed his body. After Eddie had completed his training in WC he met and was accepted by the white eyebrows master, because they shared Pan Nam as their Sifu.

Sifu Eddie is also an Ip Man lineage. So he gets a broader base from which to teach WC.

And if pedigree is a cause for ego stroking and pissing contests... you won't be ashamed with him as a sifu.

Plus 5 petal plum form sounds useful, if accepted as a closed door disciple... you might even learn white eyebrows.

 

[Marnetmar]

Eddie's not one for ego-stroking or pissing contests. He's a great guy and very humble.

 

[Eric_H]

FFS, I'd just like to finish HFY. Who has time to learn a second WC style?

 

[Marnetmar]

FFS, I'd just like to finish HFY. Who has time to learn a second WC style?

Next to nobody. It's a bit of a hypothetical question

 

[TSDTexan]

Eddie's not one for ego-stroking or pissing contests. He's a great guy and very humble.

No. I didn't even mean to imply that.

Eddie is a great yet humble guy from everyone I have spoke with, who have met him.(yourself included). I have never read nor have I ever met anyone who says otherwise.

I meant some folks are "credentialists".
And if their credentials are superior (so and so was the First student of Sifu, and trained the longest, therefore..... No... my master was the last student of Sifu... and his art was most refined... fewer errors more perfected) than yours etc etc etc.

It doesn't hurt you (or anyone) to be able to say, Well yes, my teach was one of Sifu's students. He was a great teacher who produced many good students. My teacher also studied from a few other teachers and learned even more.

Sifu Eddie wount be a great choice, and there would be no shame in claiming him, in the face of someone claiming great and high lineages etc.

 

[Vajramusti]

Anyone have some WC styles other than your own you'd like to learn if only there were an opportunity?

I'd be super stoked to learn the Yuen Kay San/Sum Nung style and possibly the Gu Lao village style. Learning the Wong Shun Leung style from someone like Phillip Bayer or David Petersen would be pretty awesome too.

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I don't mind understanding the principles of other styles, checking and testing what others do- but I would rather keep on progressing on the path that I am on.

 

[Jake104]

This is perhaps the single biggest thing that bothers me about Wing Chun. To be honest, I'm more interested in discovering my Wing Chun - and practicing in a way that aligns with my understanding, rather than fitting some very particular mold of another practitioner who has, himself, adopted and adapted the system

 

[Jake104]

When you do this. It all becomes the same crap! It's not eskrima or this that WC. It's MMA. My Martial Art! Or in this case yours. YMA.

Steve mentioned that what I'm learning isn't WC cause it's principle or ideology based? That's what makes it WC, it's principle/ ideology based. Same crap to me. Plus my teacher is showing me some "traditional" That I did not know and we train traditional I know. So he has to be teaching me WC. Maybe it's just for me. Maybe I'm his closed door WC disciple? Maybe not? "I'll never tell".

But he's right about himself aka Steve/Geezer already having a good foundation which allows him to get it. Having a foundation is important. Steve if I in anyway insulted or offended you, you can kick me in the balls next time we see each other. By the way you didn't offend me. We're bff's. Matter fact listen to to KLOVE 91.1FM. I'm dedicating a song to our friendship tonight. Either Queens " you're my best friend" or, Jaskson 5's "I'll be there "

 

[Argus]

When you do this. It all becomes the same crap! It's not eskrima or this that WC. It's MMA. My Martial Art! Or in this case yours. YMA.

Steve mentioned that what I'm learning isn't WC cause it's principle or ideology based? That's what makes it WC, it's principle/ ideology based. Same crap to me. Plus my teacher is showing me some "traditional" That I did not know and we train traditional I know. So he has to be teaching me WC. Maybe it's just for me. Maybe I'm his closed door WC disciple? Maybe not? "I'll never tell".

But he's right about himself aka Steve/Geezer already having a good foundation which allows him to get it. Having a foundation is important. Steve if I in anyway insulted or offended you, you can kick me in the balls next time we see each other. By the way you didn't offend me. We're bff's. Matter fact listen to to KLOVE 91.1FM. I'm dedicating a song to our friendship tonight. Either Queens " you're my best friend" or, Jaskson 5's "I'll be there "

I'm not sure I follow.

My goal isn't to mix Eskrima and WC, or to create my own Martial Art. And, I don't really subscribe to the MMA approach. I train other arts to gain a perspective on Wing Chun, and I intend to train WC as it's own thing when I'm training WC. Hence my concern about footwork habits from Eskrima creeping in occasionally

 

[JPinAZ]

Movement is movement...

Lol that's far too simplified. In a VERY general sense yeah, but how and why we 'move' is typically driven by principle/concept of a given art. A lot of what is done in other arts is contrary to WC principle, body methods, structure, facing, economy of motion, gate/box theories, etc - and visa versa. For one example, the way one 'moves' and uses the body for power generations in Bagua is generally very different to the way we move/operate in WC.
Heck, even within the same art we see this as geezer is pointing out from his experiences in different lineages of WC!

 

[geezer]

Movement is movement...

If that were true, I could dance.

 

[Argus]

If that were true, I could dance.

Pssst! Just do your Biu Tze form! Noone will know the difference!

 

[Jake104]

I'm not sure I follow.

My goal isn't to mix Eskrima and WC, or to create my own Martial Art. And, I don't really subscribe to the MMA approach. I train other arts to gain a perspective on Wing Chun, and I intend to train WC as it's own thing when I'm training WC. Hence my concern about footwork habits from Eskrima creeping in occasionally

That's not my goal either. The overlapping ideas is more of what I speak about. The commonalities interest me, not the differences. I learn Eskrima as a separate art. But personally, I think the trick is determining how does Eskrima work with my WC principles?

Well if you only see Martial arts styles in terms of a series of techniques, then yes certain styles won't jive together. But I don't. I see things now as, ideas principles and movements. That's it. So I stay within my main arts (WC) perimeters. Maybe my Eskrima is modified to work within my WC?...Now maybe my Eskrima really isn't much different than my WC? IDK?

Matter fact weapons have made me take a deeper look into my open hand WC training. Wait, does that mean I mix two separate arts? Maybe? He'llI, I don't know? I don't really care. But I do know what is what, and I can separate the two. But why would I? Unless I'm teaching one or the other. I'am not yet, I still have a lot to learn. So everybody can sleep easy tonight.

MMA ( MY Martial Art) is just me making fun of the term and showing that MMA isn't or doesn't have to alway be Muay Thia, boxing and BJJ. Or does it? I don't know and I don't care! Geez laweezs people.

 

[Jake104]

Just to clarify a few things. Steve aka Geezer and I have mentioned DTE on here. I hear people posting it's this or that.. I'am currently and proudly a part of this organization. DTE isn't just a hodgepodge of MA's mixed and matched. It's a MA organization of different arts. Meaning there are certified teachers or coaches that teach the different arts. It's not just "MMA". It consist of MMA, Boxing, WC, Muay Tai, Yudansha Jui jitsu, Combatives and Eskrima. All overseen by Chief instructor Martin Torres, who is undisputedly the best Martial Artistist I have ever encountered . (No offense to any of my previous instructors) So just so we are clear now of what DTE is....I'm proud to be part of it!! Straight up!!

 

[Argus]

That's not my goal either. The overlapping ideas is more of what I speak about. The commonalities interest me, not the differences. I learn Eskrima as a separate art. But personally, I think the trick is determining how does Eskrima work with my WC principles?

Well if you only see Martial arts styles in terms of a series of techniques, then yes certain styles won't jive together. But I don't. I see things now as, ideas principles and movements. That's it. So I stay within my main arts (WC) perimeters. Maybe my Eskrima is modified to work within my WC?...Now maybe my Eskrima really isn't much different than my WC? IDK?

Matter fact weapons have made me take a deeper look into my open hand WC training. Wait, does that mean I mix two separate arts? Maybe? He'llI, I don't know? I don't really care. But I do know what is what, and I can separate the two. But why would I? Unless I'm teaching one or the other. I'am not yet, I still have a lot to learn. So everybody can sleep easy tonight.

MMA ( MY Martial Art) is just me making fun of the term and showing that MMA isn't or doesn't have to alway be Muay Thia, boxing and BJJ. Or does it? I don't know and I don't care! Geez laweezs people.

Ah, I see. I think I misunderstood your post - it seems that we have the same understanding.

 

[metalic]

Is any one here from Chicago Area and interested in Phillip Bayer's win chun?