Wing Chun sparring basics

[Danny T]

We work the squared off neutral stance, Rt lead, Left lead, and with either arm forward.
Fighting is never ideal and if you spar enough you will find that the most comfortable stance and arm position happens only when you are disengaged or when drilling. Sparring changes it all and ideal seldom happens. Learn to be comfortable in all positions keeping forward pressure through the central line.

 

[geezer]

To a large degree what hand you hit with will be decided by your opponent , if he decides to initiate the attack.

As I said we don't use that type of stance , but if it were me , since I am right handed that would be my front guarding hand and I would have my right leg forward.

Right arm forward , and left leg forward doesn't make much biomechanical sense to me .
But to be certain you should probably check with one of the WT guys like Geezer , Yak Sao etc.

What Mook said in the first sentence above. When pursuing and pressing-in on an opponent I favor a stance with one foot forward. Most people tend to favor leading with the same foot and hand. In Escrima, we call this "power-side forward" and it makes perfect sense with a weapons-based art. It equally makes sense for a JKD-type approach where your body is turned to the side.

In Wing Chun by contrast, your body is square to your opponent, with your centerline pointing right at his center and both arms can reach the same targets with ease. This means that you should be ambidextrous and comfortable leading with either arm, regardless of which foot is forward.

That said, everybody has a favorite position. Because of my ankle and leg problems, I usually step forward with my left foot and have a left man-sau lead. "Biomechanically" as mook put it, this allows me to easily link my right (rear-hand) punch with my right hip as I step forward, and that way I can focus my whole body into my punch. Still, IMO it's very important to work both sides, as well as fighting out of YGKYM. After all, if it's true that your opponent's attacks dictate your response, you have to be able to respond freely to either side, ...or neither, right?

 

[kaimynas]

after a little youtubing of boxing and wingchun sparring videos, i saw that right handed boxing people in sparring stance uses right hand and right leg in rear ( as i assume to make a room for hit ), but in some wing chun videos when right handed people sparring they move with right hand (and leg) in front..

 

[StormShadow]

No sir, I am one of the biggest (fat and tall wise) dudes in the class. But the fact still remains, if you occupy the center; no matter how big your opponent is, he/she will have an un-advantageous position.

Let me break it down for ya'll.

I'm 5'11 3/4, (and was 240lbs at the time when I was 18) my reach is that of a person whom is 5'6, so I make up for it by jealously guarding the center and stealing space form other indivuduals. My big problem with WT people is that they think too much about the "correct position" and not enough about "making effective movements"...

This was in the point I made in Geezer's post of "Is this Wing Chun". My sifu was an ***, to be sure. But he did know how to really make wing tsun applicable in real life situations. You need to be dynamic. I've actually had many of occasion to try out my WT in real life. At the bars and clubs. The only time I didn't win ( and it was only a draw), was when I was sparring someone who was under 17 and I pulled my punches and did NOT occupy the center.

I'm telling ya'll, the center is the key.

My best friends daughter (who is 16) can send me reeling on my toes, and she only wieghs about 100-120lbs... I should make a video with her in it and just show how she crowds the center. I've been gone off and on from my birthplace (washington state) since she was 9. But I taught her how to guard the centerline, and she is the only one who can actually make me work for it. I mean god bless it Alecia, give your uncle Guff a break, but she just keeps going.

It makes me believe that anyone (since I outweigh her by easily 100lbs) that if you occupy the center, you at least stand a fighting chance. I'm not saying that you will be victorious in all your endeavors, but that is how I personally win. No matter if the opponent is smaller or bigger. Just like emin in that video I had of him and Obasi... occupy the center and you will be in control of the engagement.

Sorry for the long reply; I really enjoy this thread and everybodies differing viewpoints on how the "basic reactions" should be trained.


Again a call back to Geezer's post; That feller from england had it right; it's better to punch than to deflect!


All the best my good sirs,


Jeff

Do you have any video examples of this? I'm interested in what you are conveying.

 

[kaimynas]

another newbie question: how to improve reaction?

 

[mook jong man]

another newbie question: how to improve reaction?

Old timer answer: Train

 

[kaimynas]

thanks all for support, currently i don't have any questions... now my objection is to learn technique. And objection in sparring training is to give more attention to reaction improvement and to be able to block (first react to) my opponent simple straight punches..

 

[StormShadow]

I have a question Wing Chun Family, how soon should you begin sparing outside of the kwoon with a fellow practitioner?

 

[Punchy]

I have a question Wing Chun Family, how soon should you begin sparing outside of the kwoon with a fellow practitioner?

Some good stuff on this thread from a while back.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php/93276-Sparring-with-Wing-Chun

 

[StormShadow]

Thanks good info on situational sparing. Viewing sparing vids, you see that alot, wing chun artists stand, wait for guy to kick, he kicks, hits wing chun guy with a spinning back fist too, wing chun guy then rushes in, hits guy with a barrage of chain punches, ref steps in and it repeats. I view these vids and wonder, where is the footwork, where are the kicks being used to deflect and then attack neutralizing the opponents next attack before he begins? I have seen a video of a guy effectively utilizing these techniques against a kick boxer. It looks like light sparing, but the techniques he used to block/deflect the attackers kick then immediately take away his balance seemed pretty well done in my eyes. In practice, you also see alot of guys giving up their centerline and look like their reverting to some form of mma with their punching form.

 

[martial sparrer]

in my opinion you have to get back in there and work at it. one thing that can work is when yu have a sparring partner, do 3-5 minutes where all you do is parry and block, then switch and you be offensive for a time. also, if you want to spar and apply technique you have to get over your fear of getting hit....make peace with it, and make sure you get hit.....because if you can overcome your fear of being hit.....you will be more relaxed, you can get in deeper, land shots, and also have better defense. hit yourself if there is no one else to hit you!

 

[martial sparrer]

for chain punching.....I always tell my sparring partner to knee me to get me off him or uppercut.....but again he never does and he ends up bent over hugging himself.....which is bad....but yeah also move left or right and punch him!

 

[mook jong man]

for chain punching.....I always tell my sparring partner to knee me to get me off him or uppercut.....but again he never does and he ends up bent over hugging himself.....which is bad....but yeah also move left or right and punch him!

If you can perform a knee strike while someone is chain punching you , I would advocate they are not pressing forward and doing it properly.
There is also the small matter of chain punching having a slightly longer range than a knee strike , so in other words they can reach you with the punching , but you can't reach them with the knee.

 

[mook jong man]

I have a question Wing Chun Family, how soon should you begin sparing outside of the kwoon with a fellow practitioner?

What type of sparring are you talking about ? , Chi Sau sparring , light hand sparring from the guard ( your typical type of Wing Chun attacks)
Or do you mean random arms and random legs Wing Chun versus ( your non Wing Chun types of attacks , round house punch , round house kick etc) ?

If it's the Wing chun type you can start almost immediately with light hand sparring from the guard once you know Pak Sau and punch.

If it's the latter type of sparring then you should probably be competent at random four corner deflection first , and for the leg attacks be able to jam front kicks , side kicks and use leg raising deflection for circular type kicking attacks.

But having said that , you can take any counter you have learned and spar with it , it will just be in isolation that's all , and that is perfectly fine , it depends on your competency level.
One that I often give beginners to do is one armed sparring , they find it easy because they only have to work on retaining the shapes and focusing with the one arm.
Do it starting from contact range , and from further out.
Work it from all the permutations , same side arm to same side arm , opposite arm to opposite arm.
Keep driving through with forward force at all times , keep the wrist on the centerline.

 

[Argus]

in my opinion you have to get back in there and work at it. one thing that can work is when yu have a sparring partner, do 3-5 minutes where all you do is parry and block, then switch and you be offensive for a time. also, if you want to spar and apply technique you have to get over your fear of getting hit....make peace with it, and make sure you get hit.....because if you can overcome your fear of being hit.....you will be more relaxed, you can get in deeper, land shots, and also have better defense. hit yourself if there is no one else to hit you!

I think that is very bad thinking. If all you're doing is "blocking", you're just learning to chase hands. You should be attacking and chasing center with every technique, and every response, when possible. When someone throws a punch at you, throw a better punch back. This is why we're not trying to "block" things in Wing Chun. We're trying to deflect them, and follow through with a counter attack in one motion.