wing chun history is not important

Status
Not open for further replies.
Let the record show that both Guy and LFJ have said they are NOT claiming that WSL learned the only "real" Wing Chun from Ip Man. They have used phrases like "most" and "majority", etc when referring to other Ip Man students, to give the impression that there are others besides WSL. But when put to the question neither one can name a single student of Ip Man other than WSL that they feel learned Ip Man's art the "right" way. And that's about as far as this line of discussion is going to go.

I'll be honest. I've seen a video passed around on Facebook that I believe was HKM lineage, and it didn't look too bad at all! I may be wrong about the lineage, but it wasn't WSL's anyway... I think.

The problem is, YM had students that we haven't seen much of even on video, and perhaps some that didn't go on to teach. How do I know? I can't judge them and say "all", so I must say "most", referring to the current big names that everyone is familiar with and who I named "mainstream".

Looking at 2nd generation students of YM may not be fair either, because there are even some terrible guys under WSL (who clearly spent very little time with him). So, again, I can't say because 2nd gen. students are bad, therefore some guy I've never seen was also bad. I must give the benefit of the doubt some times. I personally am not impressed with Augustine Fong, but I have not seen much of anything from HKM. Maybe he was great.

But what if, what if... it was the literal truth what WSL said about YM believing it better to teach 1 good student than 10 bad ones, and he actually did that? Not saying that's the case, but even if that were the stone cold truth, no two-ways about it, you would still be mocking us as "true believers", when in fact we'd be the "truth believers". But you are just being childish about. You will not even go find out about WSLVT yourself.

Let the record show ! that KPM is just an argumentative little guy who loves nothing more than controversy and sh!t stirring and will try to lead everyone down the road to saying something they aren't, and will even go as far as putting words into people's mouths just to create hostility and arguments, and then point and laugh at how absurd everyone else is being.

That's his MO as he takes it upon himself to wrap up every thread with a final judgement and a line like "And that's about as far as this line of discussion is going to go."
 
Let the record show ! that KPM is just an argumentative little guy who loves nothing more than controversy and sh!t stirring and will try to lead everyone down the road to saying something they aren't, and will even go as far as putting words into people's mouths just to create hostility and arguments, and then point and laugh at how absurd everyone else is being.

---I believe in calling "foul" when I see it. And I obviously wasn't the only one that saw it. You know nothing about me. You just can't handle it when things start to hit a bit too close to home. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen! If you are going to make sweeping derogatory statements about everyone else's Wing Chun...yeah, I'm going to call you on it! You can consider that "argumentative" if you want to. And I didn't put words in anyone's mouth.

That's his MO as he takes it upon himself to wrap up every thread with a final judgement and a line like "And that's about as far as this line of discussion is going to go."

---What I said was certainly true of this discussion! :rolleyes:
 
I think you'll find I spoke quite nicely about CSL WC, as did Guy.
 
There is proof for what I've said: the observable components of each system and their level of coherence and functionality as a system for skill development. You haven't examined it. Doesn't mean it's not there. Go find out for yourself.

Some of these details have even been discussed here already.

I have to say I don't really understand the mindset which takes a strong opposition to hearing how some other wing chun system works. Personally I would jump at the chance to hear more about (for example) HKM wing chun, or HFY wing chun, or some other version with which I am unfamiliar.
 
Let the record show ! that KPM is just an argumentative little guy who loves nothing more than controversy and sh!t stirring...

...That's his MO as he takes it upon himself to wrap up every thread with a final judgement and a line like "And that's about as far as this line of discussion is going to go."

Gentlemen, unlike that other forum, direct personal attacks are not acceptable here at MT. People must be able to agree to disagree without making it personal.

At this point I'm afraid I have to agree that there is no point in continuing this discussion, and I wouldn't be surprised to see this thread getting locked. :(
 
"the majority of whom YM obviously did not give a sh1t about" THAT is a rather sweeping statement! How do you know who Ip Man did and did not "give a sh1t about"??? Do you know them all? Where you there? Have you actually spoken to them to hear there stories? "End of story.".....spoken like a "True Believer"! ;)

I can tell that YM did not teach some people with much care and attention (or that they did not care to listen) because their wing chun is incoherent and non-functional. There are parts of several of these systems which have obviously been made up or imitated badly from cursory observation. I don't need to be there because the evidence is here right now in the present and I have experienced it. I can make allowances for some individual variation in quality, but when a whole lineage is rubbish then it is time to face up to that fact. It isn't polite to pretend that all is ok.
 
Let the record show that both Guy and LFJ have said they are NOT claiming that WSL learned the only "real" Wing Chun from Ip Man. They have used phrases like "most" and "majority", etc when referring to other Ip Man students, to give the impression that there are others besides WSL. But when put to the question neither one can name a single student of Ip Man other than WSL that they feel learned Ip Man's art the "right" way. And that's about as far as this line of discussion is going to go.

This is a misrepresentation of the argument. I don't know if there is better wing chun than WSL VT because I have seen none. This doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I think you are making the kinds of mental leap that you would do in my position, but I am not prepared to do that. I would love for there to be other wing chun that I haven't seen which happens to be great.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top