Wing Chun and Chi Kung

[Yoshiyahu]

Aww so sad. I remember when I had my old computer at my old house. An had the web came up an running. There was lady from the philiphines trying to get me fly her here to Amerikkka. She wanted to get married and become citizen. She was beautiful girl but I am not up on marring people over the net. Call me old fashion!

He flew away on a plane to the phillipines and married some lady he met online! And never came back. Married into some kids too. poor SiHing, but I guess he's a happy broke guy now.
Point being, all hubbie's advanced MALE students seem to all move to the phillipines and get married and never come back! lol!
Weird karma, that!

Not leaving him many people for challenges, sparring, training, etc. Just little old me.

 

[Si-Je]

I used to be all punkrock, but old fashioned is where it's at! Just saw on the news that the new "trend" in dating for teenagers is to "hook up" before dating. To sample the chemistry before going on a date, or to a dance.
backwards much?
Baby girl's getting home schooled! Forget that noise!
Hubbie, has his own initiation all set up for that "courting" fellow too. lol! That's going to be entertaining..

 

[Yoshiyahu]

What does it mean to hook up before dating?


Also whats hubbie Drill Sargent Mystic Woof Initiation for young men???


Be careful males are natural hunters if you make the prey hard toget than daughter will have the best of the hunters gaming after her. An they will gladly endure hubbies boot camp to win the prize. Hard games are the most fun to play. Atleast one time anyway....

I used to be all punkrock, but old fashioned is where it's at! Just saw on the news that the new "trend" in dating for teenagers is to "hook up" before dating. To sample the chemistry before going on a date, or to a dance.
backwards much?
Baby girl's getting home schooled! Forget that noise!
Hubbie, has his own initiation all set up for that "courting" fellow too. lol! That's going to be entertaining..

 

[Si-Je]

What does it mean to hook up before dating?


Also whats hubbie Drill Sargent Mystic Woof Initiation for young men???


Be careful males are natural hunters if you make the prey hard toget than daughter will have the best of the hunters gaming after her. An they will gladly endure hubbies boot camp to win the prize. Hard games are the most fun to play. Atleast one time anyway....

"hook up" is to do "the nasty".
Hubbie's initiation is to straight up fight the crap out of them. If they can't beat hubbie, then too bad so sad. lol! Yeah, like THAT will work!
After that, they have to get past mommy. And I'm sneaker than to make a frontal assalt!

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Well When me my wife have children I will make sure my son knows Iron body. So he defeat Hubbie by tireing out his fist...




lol

"hook up" is to do "the nasty".
Hubbie's initiation is to straight up fight the crap out of them. If they can't beat hubbie, then too bad so sad. lol! Yeah, like THAT will work!
After that, they have to get past mommy. And I'm sneaker than to make a frontal assalt!

 

[Si-Je]

haha! I'll make sure my daughter knows chi force and disturbs your son's energy so he can't raise his arms. lol!
Chi wars!

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

I find the Kidney breathing exercise given in the link to be misleading.

Kidney breathing is an advance practice. Focusing on Ming-men point is used by the Wu-liu sect of Taoism for a very special reason.

Even as a moving form I do not see from the link possible benefits such as the movments found in Ba dua jin. However it does mention k1=Yongquan.

Maybe if I was taught this form I might be able to understand what they are speaking of in terms of Kidney breathing but I don't see anything based on the link.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

You lost me please post the qoute you are speaking of?

I find the Kidney breathing exercise given in the link to be misleading.

Kidney breathing is an advance practice. Focusing on Ming-men point is used by the Wu-liu sect of Taoism for a very special reason.

Even as a moving form I do not see from the link possible benefits such as the movments found in Ba dua jin. However it does mention k1=Yongquan.

Maybe if I was taught this form I might be able to understand what they are speaking of in terms of Kidney breathing but I don't see anything based on the link.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

http://www.wingchunkuen.com/sumnung/articles/article_ritchie04_qigong.html

I am saying from this link I do not see anything shown to benefit the Kidneys nor do I see anything speaking of Kidney breathing.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

My Sifu says that the Kidney breathing techniques not only strengthens the muscles and builds stronger power but it also cultivates the chi and replenishes the body. He also says he rises up aggressive Chi and builds up deadly striking power!

http://www.wingchunkuen.com/sumnung/articles/article_ritchie04_qigong.html

I am saying from this link I do not see anything shown to benefit the Kidneys nor do I see anything speaking of Kidney breathing.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

My Sifu says that the Kidney breathing techniques not only strengthens the muscles and builds stronger power but it also cultivates the chi and replenishes the body. He also says he rises up aggressive Chi and builds up deadly striking power!

How does this technique shown in the link relate to the Kidneys?

I understand how Kidney breathing is done. In fact there are quite a different amount of methods that could be called Kidney breathing.

I can clearly see if something is to be called Kidney breathing it must have some sort of realtionship or benefit of the Kidneys.

Example: Adominal breathing,Reverse Adominal breathing,Six healing sound,Six color mediation. Which just names a few that may consist of a type of Kidney breathing because it does have an effect on the Kidneys.

This link shows a back stretch and an arm circling exercise.
I suppose a back bend may benefit the Kidneys but it is misleading to say that it is Kidney breathing.

The Kidneys are related to the Bones and Marrow more than the muscles.
But I guess in some form you can link them to the muscles.

It does not raise up "aggressive Qi" The Qi stored in the kidney area would be known as Water Qi. Kan and Li is an important concept in Qigong as well as Sanbao without knowing these practicing Qigong is a waste of time.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Actually My Sifu doesn't actually call it Kidney Breathing. The link i shown is the closet thing I can find dealing with Chi Kung in wing chun to show that exist. An Chi Form that my Sifu is talking about has different breaths and different movements.

But as for kidney breathing it still revitalizes the body. An yes the kidneys are said to be the root to all things that affect the body. If you have healthy kidneys your body will be healthy.

As for bone marrow cleansing. I don't know all the theory and principles of it. I just do it. I just practice it under the guidance of my Sifu so I can become healthier and stronger. Over time you begin to really see the results.

How does this technique shown in the link relate to the Kidneys?

I understand how Kidney breathing is done. In fact there are quite a different amount of methods that could be called Kidney breathing.

I can clearly see if something is to be called Kidney breathing it must have some sort of realtionship or benefit of the Kidneys.

Example: Adominal breathing,Reverse Adominal breathing,Six healing sound,Six color mediation. Which just names a few that may consist of a type of Kidney breathing because it does have an effect on the Kidneys.

This link shows a back stretch and an arm circling exercise.
I suppose a back bend may benefit the Kidneys but it is misleading to say that it is Kidney breathing.

The Kidneys are related to the Bones and Marrow more than the muscles.
But I guess in some form you can link them to the muscles.

It does not raise up "aggressive Qi" The Qi stored in the kidney area would be known as Water Qi. Kan and Li is an important concept in Qigong as well as Sanbao without knowing these practicing Qigong is a waste of time.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Actually My Sifu doesn't actually call it Kidney Breathing. The link i shown is the closet thing I can find dealing with Chi Kung in wing chun to show that exist. An Chi Form that my Sifu is talking about has different breaths and different movements.

Now I have a better understanding of what you are trying to say.

Kidney breathing is an advance set. I find alot of Qigong teachers teach things like it without having their students knowing how to relax,regulate the mind,and feel the area first.

I have seen different Marrow cleansing/washing exercises on the market.
It also is an advance form because how difficult it is to sense the Marrow among other theories involved. If you know the theories and principles you will be able to understand Qigong better than someone who just does the exercises.

 

[Si-Je]

You could do meditation sitting straight backed in a chair with feet flat on the floor.
Draw white light type energy from the sky/heavens and draw it into the top of your head. Flow it down through your body stopping to visualize each organ as it comes down. Visualize each organ as heathy and bring light into it, imagine "black" negative energy from organ flowing out and being replaced by light. Do this all through body until you get to the feet. Send all "negative" or poisons of the body out through the feet into the ground/earth.
This is a very groovy meditation. Breathing steady and slow all the while. It will make you feel vitialized right away. Relaxed, calm, and light.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Okay Now i understand you ploy.I am not going to engage a debate over who has more head knowledge. AS for theories I lied when I said i don't study them. I wanted to pick your brain and understand your reasoning. Now I know. If you feel you have alot of knowledge and can really teach someone something then by all means share your knowledge of what you may know. But as for Kidney Breathing Returns chi to source. If you want principles and theory I can start a thread for that. I know it will be a boring thread just me an you talking about theories. But thats cool if you want to do that. Theories are great. But in the heat of the fight you may have adapt and break rules an disregard certain theories to for self preservation. As for the Link its proof that Wing Chun also practices Chi Kung or Hei Gung. What ever you wanna call it..

Sun hei gwai yuen means Kidney breating returns Chi to the source.

The word Sun means Kidneys
Hei means Chi
Gwai yuen means returning to the source

Return to source means to revitalize invigorate or rejuvenate.
As for reverse breathe and natural breathe etc etc. We can debate that all day long. With no real outcome.

In short Wing Chun has Wing Chun Sets?

Do you agree?

As for the kidneys please share why it is so important to maintain Kidney health? Also please share how it connects with the Libido?


Please share the Martial Benefits of Kidney Breathing?

Now I have a better understanding of what you are trying to say.

Kidney breathing is an advance set. I find alot of Qigong teachers teach things like it without having their students knowing how to relax,regulate the mind,and feel the area first.

I have seen different Marrow cleansing/washing exercises on the market.
It also is an advance form because how difficult it is to sense the Marrow among other theories involved. If you know the theories and principles you will be able to understand Qigong better than someone who just does the exercises.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Okay Now i understand you ploy.I am not going to engage a debate over who has more head knowledge.

I never was trying to engage in a debate. I was trying to have a better understanding of what you were saying by the link.

You then spoke about what your teacher said about "Aggressive Qi"

Which I do not find to be true.

You then go on speaking about Kidney breathing and Marrow cleansing which would be considered at least by my standards advance forms.

AS for theories I lied when I said i don't study them. I wanted to pick your brain and understand your reasoning. Now I know. If you feel you have alot of knowledge and can really teach someone something then by all means share your knowledge of what you may know.

One of the main reasons why I try to hold back from discussing Qigong online and even when teaching in person.

If you want principles and theory I can start a thread for that. I know it will be a boring thread just me an you talking about theories. But thats cool if you want to do that. Theories are great. But in the heat of the fight you may have adapt and break rules an disregard certain theories to for self preservation.

Do what you want I will comment on things I find to be truthful or practical. Theories are there for a reason. In Qigong if you do not know proper theory you are wasting your time in your cultivation. All the Sects though they may differ on methods they do agree on certain theories and do achieve higher levels you need to know Qigong theory.

As for the kidneys please share why it is so important to maintain Kidney health? Also please share how it connects with the Libido?

You can look thru my past post I wrote a small article on Jing.

Please share the Martial Benefits of Kidney Breathing?

Why should I share information with someone who:

AS for theories I lied when I said

And who in another thread spoke ill-will towards my screen name?

 

[Si-Je]

I see now why Chi guy didn't want me to put to much stock in reading the books on this stuff.
Arguing about doing the same thing just maybe in different ways. Getting hung up on schematics, technical lingo.

"the doer alone learns." -Lao Tzu
"It's easy, you just do it. Here...."- Chi guy

 

[Yoshiyahu]

So Sorry for the offence. My friend there was pun intended with the alchemist joke. Sorry if it offended you. Back to Theory. This seems to be your interest right now. First off regardless if we share theory with people on the forum?

Will they be able to practice Chi Kung from my link or this thread?

No they will not be able to practice Chi Kung at all. My link is simply something that shares info that Chi Kung sets exist in Wing Chun. However it doesn't show you how to practice the forms. There are a few pictures true. But the postures and transitions are not there. The breath work is not shown there. The exact timing and rotation of the body contractions etc is not shown on there. Now it depends on your style lineage and many other things.

But we can all agree you need a sifu in order to learn the Chi Kung. This is my humble Opinion...

Now for Chi Kung you should use it to

Regulate the Body, the Mind and the Breath. You have natural breathing, reverse breathing,Counting breath and even holding breathing exercises that do different things. Yes it is true about sensing your Chi and learning how to direct it. But in regular stance work you should also learn this. You should be learning this when your punching. Holding Yee Gee Kim Yeung Ma you are envision your Chi in your Dan Tien and learn how to send it through your body to your limbs.

Now I really didn't disagree with what you said. Everything you said is valid. But It was my mistake, The way I took your statement was confrontational instead of informative. So forgive me for that. But my point is true. You need a Sifu to teach you the breath,the movements and the principles and how they are applied. With out it your totally lost. If you have principles from reading books which I have it doesn't matter. I had an book on Chi Kung atleast 3 years before I even started practicing Chi kung. I read the book but I didn't practice it until I had a qualified Sifu who could teach me. Now I have spoken with many people on theories and different knowledge. But my Chinese Sifu in Tai Chi is simplest. He says the key to success is practice. No matter how much theory you have it means nothing unless you practice it. Theory shows you how to use it. But what good is it to know how to use a gun if you don't have a gun? Its useless. First build the gun.

But I think we are missing each other points let me address what I agree with you on first.

Learn how to relax (This should be basic)
Even before I started learning the Chi Kung I learn how to relax. Just from doing the Quasi external parts of Wing Chun. I say so called External because all of Wing Chun is both Internal and External even though some may disagree.

As for Regulating the mind Yes my Sifu told me earlier on When I started practicing Ma From and Sil Lim Tao that I should slow it down. Concentrate on each movement. Feel where the energy is coming from and feel where it is going. Focus on my technique so that intention and energy goes where I focus. etc etc.

As for feeling the area When you first start practing the Stance you are taught to feel the Chi rise. You are taught to feel the Chi in your Dan Tien. Even when you strecth and tell your legs to loosen up. You are projecting your YI (thought) through your legs. Your Yi is your mind. You are sending your Chi through your legs. Your legs relax and you can strecth a little farther. The more you strecth the more Chi can travel through your limbs and your body. By doing various forms and also chi kung you open up meridens and eliminate stagnation.


You disagree with Aggressive Chi. Well Wing Chun is an Aggressive Art. Their is passive Chi and Aggressive Chi. Aggressive Chi doesn't equal bad chi. There is difference. I do not mean negative Chi when I speak of Aggression. But you may have perceived that. But we can agree to disagree.

Chi is energy

Kung is Work or skill acquired by practice.

When ever you do Chi Kung your are working or practicing your chi. You are acquiring skill with your Chi. Be it hard Chi Kung or Soft Chi Kung.
I can simply say it like this. Anything that raises your Testerone level will make a man and woman more aggressive. Doesn't mean violent. But just aggressive. There is always the increase potential in other words.


But please share your principles of Chi Kung?

I never was trying to engage in a debate. I was trying to have a better understanding of what you were saying by the link.

You then spoke about what your teacher said about "Aggressive Qi"

Which I do not find to be true.

You then go on speaking about Kidney breathing and Marrow cleansing which would be considered at least by my standards advance forms.




One of the main reasons why I try to hold back from discussing Qigong online and even when teaching in person.

Do what you want I will comment on things I find to be truthful or practical. Theories are there for a reason. In Qigong if you do not know proper theory you are wasting your time in your cultivation. All the Sects though they may differ on methods they do agree on certain theories and do achieve higher levels you need to know Qigong theory.



You can look thru my past post I wrote a small article on Jing.



Why should I share information with someone who:

And who in another thread spoke ill-will towards my screen name?

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

No they will not be able to practice Chi Kung at all. My link is simply something that shares info that Chi Kung sets exist in Wing Chun. However it doesn't show you how to practice the forms. There are a few pictures true. But the postures and transitions are not there. The breath work is not shown there. The exact timing and rotation of the body contractions etc is not shown on there. Now it depends on your style lineage and many other things.

Fair enough though the link does try to come off as a teaching exercise.

You need a Sifu to teach you the breath,the movements and the principles and how they are applied. With out it your totally lost. If you have principles from reading books which I have it doesn't matter. I had an book on Chi Kung atleast 3 years before I even started practicing Chi kung. I read the book but I didn't practice it until I had a qualified Sifu who could teach me. Now I have spoken with many people on theories and different knowledge. But my Chinese Sifu in Tai Chi is simplest. He says the key to success is practice. No matter how much theory you have it means nothing unless you practice it. Theory shows you how to use it. But what good is it to know how to use a gun if you don't have a gun? Its useless. First build the gun.

I agree with needing a teacher.



I am also someone who is big on theory. If you practice without knowing theory you are wasting time. For example if you do not know San Bao,Kan and Li, Yin and Yang and Five element theory you will only waste the energy you are culivating. People try holding their breath and placing their attention at a particular organ resulting in Qi stagnation.

I don't disagree with aggresive Qi which would be called Fire Qi. I suspect I misread your wording as Qi in the Kidney area as Fire Qi which it is Water Qi.

I am also big on theory because many teachers teach their students Qigong exercises that 1.Can damage students who do not know what they are doing 2. Students can not progress in higher levels of cultivation because their basic levels have not been developed correctly.

One of Dr. Jwing Ming Yang's student told me that the way to see if someone is doing Tai chi chuan correctly was to refer to the classics.

In other words by knowing theory you can see who is an accomplished Qigong teacher and who is not. Which is why those who are into Newage Qigong mix their theories with other Newage or Yoga and have mixed results with their classes.

I have been to a good amount of Qigong teachers some who even taught at the Acupunture school I went to who did not know much on Qigong theory but here they were teaching it!!
I think a Qigong teacher should be able to pick apart any Qigong set and be able to see how in theory it works and why it works.

 

[Si-Je]

Sorry, jade cloud. I do see value in theory. But, I disagree that the measurement for someone's level of mastery and correct utilization of chi/qi cannot be based on there "basics" of energy cultivation.
There are many ways to raise and cultivate energy, and not all of them are Eastern.
Just because someone uses qi/chi/energy and cultivates it differently than what you were taught doesn't make it 'wrong" or inferior. Just different.
Some methods may work better for one person than another, just like regular martial arts. Sure, some styles my be more efficient, but that doesn't always make them the best for every individual.
We're talking energy that's in your very own body, it's yours, learning to focus it on what you want it to do and the method you do that can be decided by you.

I've heard people say alot that you can 'hurt' yourself with your own energy if you do things 'incorrectly'. I do wonder, and it's possibly out of ignorance, but how can you harm yourself with your own energy?
Especially when simply meditating and breathing on increasing flow, cultivation, and such? The only thing I could think of is one may get too much energy built up and need to ground the excess energy?

Not wanting to start a fight now, just really curious since I've been introduced to a different way of thinking about chi/qi than alot of folks that talk about the eastern ways.