Why the order of the belt colors?

[Doc]

Mr Rose tells the exact same story about when he started teaching/expanding kenpo in England - he would say how he was described as a thug, that Kenpo wasn't a martial-art because it was just like street-fighting. Ain't that the whole point? lol!

Well yes because it wasn't Japanese in origin, (inspite of what some believe), so it didn't have the 'cultural refinement and rituals' that made it a "civilized" activity with a code of honor, pride, and later sportsmanship.' Parker inherited a down a dirty kick-*** martial art from Kwai Sun Chow, that eliminated everything that had nothing to do with street fighting self-defense. To the traditionalist, this was awful and violated every cultural code of ethics they had established for their martial art.

haha you know you are exactly describing me there but thats no problem, I'm doing my best to learn the material and teach it as best I can But I also get alot of folks who walk in the door, and walk straight out again when they see us practising attacking-mace WHAACKKK!!!

But that's alright. I gave a speech to some of my non-gun carrying students recently, because we spend as much time on how to 'attack' each other as defend. Realistic attacks help students to evaluate their true self defense capabilities, as well as the effectiveness of the material being taught.

'Good people' in society have to be taught 'how' to attack someone with the mentality of a 'street savy' predator. Good people don't have either side of the equation in their experience. So with the exception of my cops, all my students are professional doctors, lawyers, etc with no clue.

This why the instructor is so important, (especially in the commercial system), and why his instructor must be street savy, to teach someone else how to be street conscious and survive. I have a whole bunch of guys, just like you, but they're learning because I'm teaching them the "street" where I not only grew up but continue to work. I'm teaching them how to attack, defend, AND the culture and mentality of street people who are very serious predators.

that helps to explain why some of the 'commercial' brown-techniques seem very good, but some make your eyes roll to the back of your head. But he did a good job with 'yellow', those techniques really rock! (well the PAMs and BAMs certainly make a difference anyway!)

Well there are mnay who won't admit it, but I've always heard students from all over say, "Oh, I would never do that technique on the street. I'd get my butt kicked." So, I always ask, "Than why are you learning it?" The answer is always the same, "Because I need it to get promoted." This is one of many reasons why most of the commercial lineages are failing. The culture of the business breeds people who want belts instead of the real expereince. Unfortunately the "real" expereince is not user friendly for the casual. Here in Southern California I get questions about the "fighters" in Kenpo all the time. I always mention Bob Whites group because they bring a realism to their training that few do. Gotta keep in real folks.

The 'Yellow Techniques' have undergone the most significant revisions over the years because they are seen and taught more than any other, even though they were an afterthought to the system. Initially they were designed to be "easy" for there intended students, but ultimately expanded to everyone and that brought additional changes as well.

yup I've got a headache now just thinking about it! When I started posting here I had no clue how diverse techniques were between the various schools/lineages, I just couldn't figure out why it was so hard to discuss techniques, and its because everyone does them differently.!

I take a lot of heat from people trying to lay common ground for discussions, but its not "us vs them." It's all of us trying to learn and get better, and we should not let semantics or pride keep us from what should be our ultimate goal. Not belts and rank, but competence.

Thanks James, always a pleasure until you 'cross the pond' and I see you again.

 

[Hand Sword]

I take a lot of heat from people trying to lay common ground for discussions, but its not "us vs them." It's all of us trying to learn and get better, and we should not let semantics or pride keep us from what should be our ultimate goal. Not belts and rank, but competence.

Perfectly said Sir! :asian:

 

[kidswarrior]

Perfectly said Sir! :asian:

What HS said.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Doc,
this may be a little off topic but refers back to Carol's question on the red belt. I remember when I started studying the arts that stories always said that the RED BELT was a grandmaster who had killed another man in combat (sometimes for the right to wear that belt). Did you ever hear those stories back when you started.
Not saying they where true but just asking a off topic question

 

[Doc]

Doc,
this may be a little off topic but refers back to Carol's question on the red belt. I remember when I started studying the arts that stories always said that the RED BELT was a grandmaster who had killed another man in combat (sometimes for the right to wear that belt). Did you ever hear those stories back when you started.
Not saying they where true but just asking a off topic question

Oh, are you trying to say I was around waaay back then? OK I may have been around then, but I also know the stories are martial arts mythology. You know kinda like the one that says "Black Belts have to have their hands registered."

In my experience the "red" belt was something some Korean Stylists used in place of brown belt. The Japanese Traditional "red belt" wasn't really red, but a combination of red and white to designate both ends of the spectrum, and was an honorary distinction awarded at 5th and beyond.

Keep in mind the basic rank/belt structure we see today came from the Japanese beginning with Jigoro Kano in Ju-do, and later Karate-do. Karete-do traditionally training was all based in kata, and not fighting, sport or otherwise. At one point they were both known as "players" in their respective "sports." "Judo players and Karate players" indicating the nature and basis of their arts of the time.

In modern times we have so many made up styles, and made up traditions these things have virtually lost their meaning and significance in the big picture. One of the reasons of many, my people don't wear any stripes at all. The stripes came about in the "business era" and didn't exist when I first started. No need unless you selling something to the public. We all know where each of us is, so it's unnecessary.

So much of what's seen today is about the business of the art, and not about the tradition sir.