Why so much pading?

[Laplace_demon]

What is curious to me is, although you have asserted before that WTF competition is not full contact, there have been times in my life when I have quite regularly taken full contact kicks to the face in competition. And fought on.

There are also times in my life when I have taken real life fist contact to the face. Not in a competition, in real life. And fought on.

Those two experiences were not entirely dissimilar, in that they required a bloody minded strength of will more than anything else.

I always find it amusing when people imply or assert that a kick fighter won't be able to take a punch to the face. As if the shape of the instrument making contact somehow makes a difference.

I don't think a persons "will" can overcome neurology and conditioning. There was nothing wrong with the ITF fighters will in that Grand Prix Final. It was a cold shower for him simply.

I have no hesitation doing WTF sparring. That alone should tell you something. Doesn't mean I would be very good at it, but I haven't purposely chosen ITF over WTF based on the level of contact.

 

[Gnarlie]

I have no hesitation doing WTF sparring. That alone should tell you something.

I said competition. Not sparring. It tells me that you don't have any real experience of it or the other forms of contact competition you seem so eager to compare it to.

I didn't watch the video, it is moot. Again you draw style related conclusions from an isolated case.

The thread us about the reasons why PPE is used in WTF competition. Your posts in the thread have so far been completely off topic.

 

[RTKDCMB]

And 83.2% of statistics are made up on the spot.

50% of all people die within 3 months of their birthday.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I doubt the majority of TKD practioners have the balls to visit MT clubs. I will do it however, in my dobok

Be sure to record it and post the video on this forum.

 

[RTKDCMB]

This TKD guy actually won against a kickboxer, but he was either a natural talent or used to this form of fighting.

Or he was no true Scotsman.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Needless to say, 8 out of 10 guys in your average TKD class would get slaughtered in a fight against a trained kickboxer. I wouldn't, though I would have to adjust.

A few questions on how you came to that conclusion (or how you made that assumption);

1) How trained would this kickboxer have to be?

2) How do you define your average TKD class?

3) How many of those 8 guys have sufficient training?

4) How old is your average student in your average TKD class?

5) What is the criterion for determining degree of slaughtering?

Attached is a real statistical analysis of one of our schools over a 12 year period that I personally performed for a University project with Minitab. It details such factors as joining age, length of time training and rank achieved. Stating unequivocally that a certain amount of TKD students would get slaughtered by some ambiguous kickboxers without any kind of context does not support your argument.

 

[Gnarlie]

A few questions on how you came to that conclusion (or how you made that assumption);

1) How trained would this kickboxer have to be?

2) How do you define your average TKD class?

3) How many of those 8 guys have sufficient training?

4) How old is your average student in your average TKD class?

5) What is the criterion for determining degree of slaughtering?

Attached is a real statistical analysis of one of our schools over a 12 year period that I personally performed for a University project with Minitab. It details such factors as joining age, length of time training and rank achieved. Stating unequivocally that a certain amount of TKD students would get slaughtered by some ambiguous kickboxers without any kind of context does not support your argument.

Very interesting. Now that is how you analyse and present a statistical sample and relevant conclusions! Great piece of work.

Interesting to note that it seems roughly one in ten make 1st Kup, while around one in two hundred make first dan. Or am I reading it wrong?

It's amusing to me that in this hypothesised death match, we are pitting an 'average' TKD student against a 'trained' kickboxer. Like pitting an someone with average driving ability against a trained racing driver. A nonsense premise, leading to an accompanying meaningless conclusion.

Oh and um, still off topic.

 

[Gnarlie]

8 out of 10 average cats would bet on 100 duck sized horses to defeat 1 horse sized duck 85% of the time. Therefore, horse sized ducks are weak.

 

[RTKDCMB]

nteresting to note that it seems roughly one in ten make 1st Kup, while around one in two hundred make first dan. Or am I reading it wrong?

In that particular school that sounds about right. I was only able to do the analysis about that one school because I was teaching it at the time. There are other schools that have produced more black belts and have had more students and the study was done in 2010, so it was a limited study.

 

[Gnarlie]

In that particular school that sounds about right. I was only able to do the analysis about that one school because I was teaching it at the time. There are other schools that have produced more black belts and have had more students and the study was done in 2010, so it was a limited study.

Just observing, not concluding or extrapolating! I would love to know what that statistic looks like overall though....

 

[RTKDCMB]

I would love to know what that statistic looks like overall though....

So would I.

 

[Tez3]

I know many people who train and compete 'point' scoring karate and TKD who also compete in boxing, kick boxing, rugby and Judo. Training in something that doesn't always have full contact doesn't mean people lack the intestinal fortitude for full contact. There's many reasons people do any activity and/or sport. to list them all would take longer than I have at the moment. I know many service people who train 'point's type karate and TKD and they will still be more than able to defend themselves in a self defence/bar fight type of situation as well as face a Taliban attack in Afghan.
I have also btw seen 'points' kick boxing competitions. They aren't uncommon.

 

[Laplace_demon]

A few questions on how you came to that conclusion (or how you made that assumption);

1) How trained would this kickboxer have to be?

2) How do you define your average TKD class?

3) How many of those 8 guys have sufficient training?

4) How old is your average student in your average TKD class?

5) What is the criterion for determining degree of slaughtering?

Attached is a real statistical analysis of one of our schools over a 12 year period that I personally performed for a University project with Minitab. It details such factors as joining age, length of time training and rank achieved. Stating unequivocally that a certain amount of TKD students would get slaughtered by some ambiguous kickboxers without any kind of context does not support your argument.

TKD or Karate (excluding full contact Karate) does not breed or attract as many "fighters" in the Dojo as the full contact arts. Just regular people in there who wouldn't stand a chance against Muay Thai or Kickboxers. I know since I have trained and watched TM my hole life.

I have already adressed the padding issue and concider WTFs rationale unconvincing. Martial arts is supposed to be tough.

 

[Tez3]

TKD or Karate (excluding full contact Karate) does not breed or attract as many "fighters" in the Dojo as the full contact arts. Just regular people in there who wouldn't stand a chance against Muay Thai or Kickboxers. I know since I have trained and watched TM my hole life.

I have already adressed the padding issue and concider WTFs rationale unconvincing. Martial arts is supposed to be tough.

Bollocks. You have no idea what you are talking about, however I've spent the day with the Queen and we have a new Princess so ya boo sucks

 

[TrueJim]

I think it makes about as much sense to argue about which style would beat which other style, as it makes to argue about which celebrity would beat which celebrity. (People with common sense already know that it's not about the style, it's about the athlete.)

So in a taekwondo fight, who do we think would win? Angela Mao, or Simon Rhee? Fight!

 

[Laplace_demon]

Only if you think the specific training and conditioning for each style is irrelevant.

 

[RTKDCMB]

TKD or Karate (excluding full contact Karate) does not breed or attract as many "fighters" in the Dojo as the full contact arts. Just regular people in there who wouldn't stand a chance against Muay Thai or Kickboxers. I know since I have trained and watched TM my hole life.

I have already adressed the padding issue and concider WTFs rationale unconvincing. Martial arts is supposed to be tough.

Which neither answers any of my questions nor supports your assertions.

 

[Laplace_demon]

Which neither answers any of my questions nor supports your assertions.

8 out of 10, or worse, average joes, who happen to like the excercise and spiritual aspect of training will be demolished by a full contact fighter. Common sense informs me this.

 

[Drose427]

8 out of 10, or worse, average joes, that happen to like the excercise and spiritual aspect of training will be demolished by a full contact fighter. Common sense informs me this.

You realize many of the people in MMA/kick boxing/boxing gyms don't compete right?

They do it for the exercise or SD.

They aren't sparring Full Contact in the same degree as the few who will compete.

 

[Laplace_demon]

You realize many of the people in MMA/kick boxing/boxing gyms don't compete right?

They do it for the exercise or SD.

They aren't sparring Full Contact in the same degree as the few who will compete.

Yes, but still to a greater degree than TKDoins or Karatekas. And they are conditioned better. The "worst" kickboxer will of course more often than not beat the worst TKDoin. It's very logical.