Why is WTF/KKW TKD More Expensive Than Other Arts?

[WaterGal]

I pay what the only two stores in a reasonable distance charge.

Try doing some online shopping. If you're buying high-end gear, I'd say that was probably reasonable, but you can get a good-quality WTF head protector for under $40, etc. For what it's worth, we retail a full set of TKD gear for $150.

In other words....liability.

Sure, liability is a part of the cost of running a school. My point was that the liability cost for a TKD school is the same or less than for a BJJ school, so that would not be a reason why a TKD school would be more expensive.

 

[WaterGal]

I think there's a good price point for everything but we too often cite the highest prices we've seen in taekwondo as the baseline for disussing cost, and also forget the pricing of other activities and sports. In the same way that you will find more affordable places for soccer, you can find more affordable alternatives for taekwondo and other martial arts. There are park district, YMCA and JCC taekwondo programs, for example, that have good programs at what many would agree is reasonable price and sometime cheaper than other activities in those venues.

That's a good point. You can do activities at many different levels of price and involvement.

At the rec center down the road from our school, they offer a weekly all-ages karate class for I think $80 for two months. Which is less than half of what we charge, but then you have to come to that one time or you get nothing. Having a full-time facility means that students can (and some of them do) come to class every day, and that you can have different programs targeted at different ages - but it costs more to provide that.

I was also helping a friend find dance classes for her kid the other day, and they ranged from $60 for 6 classes at the rec center to $800ish for 8 months of weekly lessons at a dance studio (and I think their website said if you want to be in the troupe you have to do at least 3 classes per week, so $2400+ for the year, plus of course the costumes and travel costs). So it just depends.

 

[Rumy73]

That's a good point. You can do activities at many different levels of price and involvement.

At the rec center down the road from our school, they offer a weekly all-ages karate class for I think $80 for two months. Which is less than half of what we charge, but then you have to come to that one time or you get nothing. Having a full-time facility means that students can (and some of them do) come to class every day, and that you can have different programs targeted at different ages - but it costs more to provide that.

I was also helping a friend find dance classes for her kid the other day, and they ranged from $60 for 6 classes at the rec center to $800ish for 8 months of weekly lessons at a dance studio (and I think their website said if you want to be in the troupe you have to do at least 3 classes per week, so $2400+ for the year, plus of course the costumes and travel costs). So it just depends.

But you run a tkd school, no?

 

[terryl965]

Try doing some online shopping. If you're buying high-end gear, I'd say that was probably reasonable, but you can get a good-quality WTF head protector for under $40, etc. For what it's worth, we retail a full set of TKD gear for $150.



Sure, liability is a part of the cost of running a school. My point was that the liability cost for a TKD school is the same or less than for a BJJ school, so that would not be a reason why a TKD school would be more expensive.

Sorry waterGal you can not get the approved WTF gear for $150.00, the electronic socks are $65.00 by there selfs, plus the WTF approved gloves are another 40.00, then a WTF approved competition uniform $100-$200 then WTF approved Shins and forearms another $90.00. People at the U.S. open was sent to buy the proper gear or they could not compete. If you want your own EPB hogu that is $499.00 plus the other equipment you need for it to work.

 

[terryl965]

Seriously how many on here actually compete at a high WTF level? The reason I ask is the numbers some of you give is way too cheap for the International athlete, I know I have three trying to make it on the international level. Go get a reality check and actually look into what is WTF approved and what people think is WTF approved. Saw hundreds of athletes having to but new equipment because what they was sold was not the proper gear and uniforms by WTF standards. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[Archtkd]

Sorry waterGal you can not get the approved WTF gear for $150.00, the electronic socks are $65.00 by there selfs, plus the WTF approved gloves are another 40.00, then a WTF approved competition uniform $100-$200 then WTF approved Shins and forearms another $90.00. People at the U.S. open was sent to buy the proper gear or they could not compete. If you want your own EPB hogu that is $499.00 plus the other equipment you need for it to work.

Sir - Save for the electronic socks and EPB you and I can get everything else for half the price you are quoting -- because we can buy at wholesale as a dojang. The prices you are quoting are retail at the venue. I am talking about WTF approved gear from Mooto and Kwon.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Sorry waterGal you can not get the approved WTF gear for $150.00, the electronic socks are $65.00 by there selfs, plus the WTF approved gloves are another 40.00, then a WTF approved competition uniform $100-$200 then WTF approved Shins and forearms another $90.00. People at the U.S. open was sent to buy the proper gear or they could not compete. If you want your own EPB hogu that is $499.00 plus the other equipment you need for it to work.

Veyr few people are going to compete at a level for that gear to be required. The vast majority can skip all that and stick with a plain hogo, and vinyl dipped gloves, boots and headgear.

 

[Gnarlie]

Veyr few people are going to compete at a level for that gear to be required. The vast majority can skip all that and stick with a plain hogo, and vinyl dipped gloves, boots and headgear.

I agree - even where the NGB stipulates what brands and models are approved for WTF sanctioned events, a local level competitor only needs to buy the equipment required to fulfil the requirement set out in their sports insurance. That doesn't include an electronic hogu or socks as they are not strictly necessary for protection. Club level protection is easily obtainable for around £150 wholesale, national and international competition is something else, a specialist market with a special commitment.

Entry level equipment e.g. the MTX brand from Mooto can be WTF approved and economical, allowing a student to develop their skills without having to pay through the nose for something they may never compete in.

Electronic scoring equipment can wait.



Gnarlie

 

[Rumy73]

I agree - even where the NGB stipulates what brands and models are approved for WTF sanctioned events, a local level competitor only needs to buy the equipment required to fulfil the requirement set out in their sports insurance. That doesn't include an electronic hogu or socks as they are not strictly necessary for protection. Club level protection is easily obtainable for around £150 wholesale, national and international competition is something else, a specialist market with a special commitment.

Entry level equipment e.g. the MTX brand from Mooto can be WTF approved and economical, allowing a student to develop their skills without having to pay through the nose for something they may never compete in.

Electronic scoring equipment can wait.



Gnarlie

Yes, fancy electronic gear can wait or maybe is not needed at all. While most gear sold to students by dojangs is slightly inflated in cost, that is not the real expense. We have discussed it before, it is testing fees. This fleecing that crosses over into different MA styles is despicable. "Oh, you paid two years worth of dojang fees to the club, worked out regularly, and helped teach classes? Yes, you can now test for your second dan but that will cost you $xxx." Come on! The sad thing is that so many schools buy into this sick practice, because "everybody" is doing it. It is straight up sleaze. Go ahead defend it. People have rationalized much worse things.

 

[Gnarlie]

Yes, fancy electronic gear can wait or maybe is not needed at all. While most gear sold to students by dojangs is slightly inflated in cost, that is not the real expense. We have discussed it before, it is testing fees. This fleecing that crosses over into different MA styles is despicable. "Oh, you paid two years worth of dojang fees to the club, worked out regularly, and helped teach classes? Yes, you can now test for your second dan but that will cost you $xxx." Come on! The sad thing is that so many schools buy into this sick practice, because "everybody" is doing it. It is straight up sleaze. Go ahead defend it. People have rationalized much worse things.

I don't see a problem if the test prices are in line with the Kukkiwon price. I don't begrudge a dojang owner earning a living.

I agree with you when it's many hundredfold profit. You can choose where to test. It should be the first question to ask at a new place.

Gnarlie

 

[WaterGal]

Sorry waterGal you can not get the approved WTF gear for $150.00, the electronic socks are $65.00 by there selfs, plus the WTF approved gloves are another 40.00, then a WTF approved competition uniform $100-$200 then WTF approved Shins and forearms another $90.00. People at the U.S. open was sent to buy the proper gear or they could not compete. If you want your own EPB hogu that is $499.00 plus the other equipment you need for it to work.

Sorry, I didn't understand from your comment that you were talking about electronic hogu and similar really high-end stuff. I was talking about the basic hogu, arm & shin guards, cup and headgear that most people (who aren't competing at a national level) get, which is of course going to be cheaper. That stuff is perfectly fine for local tournaments, but if you're competing at a high level that's a different matter.

 

[WaterGal]

Seriously how many on here actually compete at a high WTF level?

Probably not many. Most TKD practitioners are not going to go to an international level, or even want to. In my experience, most people aren't looking to go to any tournaments, they're just doing TKD because it's fun and good exercise.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

... You can choose where to test. It should be the first question to ask at a new place.

I would be surprised if almost any school lets you pay a yearly membership but test elsewhere. I often see the "loyalty" card played e.g., you shouldn't practice at another school, go to tournaments the school isn't going to, etc. I've posted once before that a kid I know "liked" on Facebook another school, and the master made mention of it to him.

 

[Gnarlie]

I would be surprised if almost any school lets you pay a yearly membership but test elsewhere. I often see the "loyalty" card played e.g., you shouldn't practice at another school, go to tournaments the school isn't going to, etc. I've posted once before that a kid I know "liked" on Facebook another school, and the master made mention of it to him.

Sad. Ask the right questions before joining / at least 18 months before 1st Dan. Then you have time to change, choose a school whose tariff structure suits your pocket and moral compass and test away.

An instructor who does not encourage cross-pollenation is not a good instructor. There is more to be gained from unification than separation.

Gnarlie

 

[terryl965]

Veyr few people are going to compete at a level for that gear to be required. The vast majority can skip all that and stick with a plain hogo, and vinyl dipped gloves, boots and headgear.

First off vynyl dip hand and feet are not allow in WTF Olympic style sparring. That is ITF point sparring, the thread is about cost for WTF/KKW. Sorry but the WTF G-Rated events only allow certain equipment to be worn and used. I was just at the U.S. Open and watch people go and buy uniforms and equipment that was not on the WTF approve list.

 

[terryl965]

Sir - Save for the electronic socks and EPB you and I can get everything else for half the price you are quoting -- because we can buy at wholesale as a dojang. The prices you are quoting are retail at the venue. I am talking about WTF approved gear from Mooto and Kwon.

Right we as school owners can buy at a discounted rate but as regular people they pay retail and even if they buy from there school you and I both mark up equipment so we can make a profit.

 

[terryl965]

Sorry, I didn't understand from your comment that you were talking about electronic hogu and similar really high-end stuff. I was talking about the basic hogu, arm & shin guards, cup and headgear that most people (who aren't competing at a national level) get, which is of course going to be cheaper. That stuff is perfectly fine for local tournaments, but if you're competing at a high level that's a different matter.

Agree but also at the state level now for USAT you must have the approve gear or the state tournament can be unsanction and those athlete can not qualify for Nationals at the elite level.

 

[Gnarlie]

Right we as school owners can buy at a discounted rate but as regular people they pay retail and even if they buy from there school you and I both mark up equipment so we can make a profit.

I would only mark up to the point where I was still cheaper than they could get it anywhere else. I don't see equipment as a main income stream as it's a one-time investment for each student. It makes more sense to make sustainable profit from ongoing training fees.

Gnarlie

 

[Gnarlie]

Agree but also at the state level now for USAT you must have the approve gear or the state tournament can be unsanction and those athlete can not qualify for Nationals at the elite level.

And the budget WTF approved range MTX from Mooto is not available in the USA?

Gnarlie

 

[terryl965]

I would only mark up to the point where I was still cheaper than they could get it anywhere else. I don't see equipment as a main income stream as it's a one-time investment for each student. It makes more sense to make sustainable profit from ongoing training fees.

Gnarlie

Absolutely agree, I tell my parents how to care for there equipment and we also have a trade in value when they out grow them. This way we can save some other parents a few dollars.