Why do we do it?

[Makalakumu]

Sex that is...

1. Is it done solely for procreation?

2. Are there other factors that come into play?

This question raises some pretty interesting moral issues.

It is also interesting to note that of the people who support the first position, there are a number of very strange bedfellows. Emminent evolutionary biology professors Richard Dawkins and EO Wilson apparently hold the same belief as the fundamentalist groups that oppose evolution.

One of the interesting moral issues that comes into play is homosexuality. If sex is something done solely for procreation, then homosexuallity could rightly be viewed as something unnatural. If there are other factors though...

upnorthkyosa

 

[ginshun]

I know that I sure don't plan on having any more kids, and I don't plan to stop haveing sex any time soon, so that would pretty much get rid of the only for procreation thing.

Honestly, I can't believe that there is anybody out there that thinks people should have sex for procreation only. Anybody who says that is lieing to themselves and everybody else.

Maybe some religous fanatics, but they are crazy anyway, so they don't reallyt count.

 

[Makalakumu]

Okay, here is the position statement for the "sex for procreation" as I know it.

One may have lots of sex and one may not get pregnant all of the time, but this only reflects the fact that getting pregnant for humans is difficult. For a pregnancy to actually occur it may take hundreds of attempts...and then even if conception occurs, the chance for implantation is relatively small. The fact that sex feels good reinforces this above position because it provides incentive for humans to have sex. It is therefore natural to expect that humans have far more acts of intercourse then pregnacies. Further, humans have developed such a strong desire to have sex that it is also natural for humans to have sex for procreation that it is also natural for humans to have sex when they cannot have or do not want to have any more children.

Basically, nature over rides our free will.

This above position, by the way is used by many anti-abortion groups to justify their belief that life is precious and sex is used for procreation only.

upnorthkyosa

 

[ginshun]

I don't buy it. I myself, and many many others take specific measures to make sure that conception does not take place when I have sex. Obviously I am not having sex for the sake of procreation. Sure, anyone can argue that it is still the overwelming natural urge to procreate that is causeing us to want to have sex even if procreation is not the goal in my mind. They are basically saying that this urge is taking place on a subconsious level I guess, but then I think the argument is getting a little silly. Its like, you may not know something, and we can't prove it, but that is still the way it is.

BS.

 

[Makalakumu]

I don't buy it. I myself, and many many others take specific measures to make sure that conception does not take place when I have sex. Obviously I am not having sex for the sake of procreation. Sure, anyone can argue that it is still the overwelming natural urge to procreate that is causeing us to want to have sex even if procreation is not the goal in my mind. They are basically saying that this urge is taking place on a subconsious level I guess, but then I think the argument is getting a little silly. Its like, you may not know something, and we can't prove it, but that is still the way it is.

BS.

The biologists above simply note that ALL other animals have sex for procreation only. Why are humans different? They would posit that it is rediculous to claim that we are any different.

 

[Flatlander]

It seems to me that if human sexual intercourse was intended by design only to enable us to procreate, impregnation would be statistically more likely, and there would be no need for it to feel good. From this I derive that because intercourse feels good, and because impregnation is not a statistical certainty, there are other reasons for sex beyond simple procreation. However, I am no sexologist. :idunno:

 

[ginshun]

The biologists above simply note that ALL other animals have sex for procreation only. Why are humans different? They would posit that it is rediculous to claim that we are any different.

I thought that there were apes that did too. Specifically the Bonobo. I am sure that I have heard that dolphins have sex for pleasure as well, although I don't know if that one is true.

Regardless, even if there were no other animals that did, I would think that there are many other things that humans do that no other animals do too.

 

[Deuce]

IMO it's not just a procreation thing. It brings a sense of intimacy and closeness between two people who love each other. I think if it's sole purpose was procreation, then we would instictively go about it in a different manner. Maybe it would only feel good for the female if conception was highly possible. As ginshun already stated, dolphins have sex for the pleasure. I've been humped by a few dogs in my day also, and I imagine that they're are smart enough to realize that my leg would not give birth....gee, maybe I should get a pregnancy test just to be safe...LOL.

 

[Makalakumu]

It seems to me that if human sexual intercourse was intended by design only to enable us to procreate, impregnation would be statistically more likely, and there would be no need for it to feel good. From this I derive that because intercourse feels good, and because impregnation is not a statistical certainty, there are other reasons for sex beyond simple procreation. However, I am no sexologist. :idunno:

I've read Richard Dawkins' book, in it he addresses this...

Evolution is not a perfect process. It naturally produces systems with flaws. Getting pregnant in humans is horrendously difficult because of the flaws in the system. Therefore the tendancy towards lots of sex and pleasure HAD to evolve in order to pass on our genetic information.

 

[Deuce]

I've read Richard Dawkins' book, in it he addresses this...

Evolution is not a perfect process. It naturally produces systems with flaws. Getting pregnant in humans is horrendously difficult because of the flaws in the system. Therefore the tendancy towards lots of sex and pleasure HAD to evolve in order to pass on our genetic information.

In this case couldn't fertility or impregnation have evolved instead of increased pleasure to increase pregnancy? It seems that this would be a more efficient evolution process that would save the time and energy put into impregnation. Not that I'm complaining.

 

[loki09789]

I've read Richard Dawkins' book, in it he addresses this...

Evolution is not a perfect process. It naturally produces systems with flaws. Getting pregnant in humans is horrendously difficult because of the flaws in the system. Therefore the tendancy towards lots of sex and pleasure HAD to evolve in order to pass on our genetic information.

I am concerned when I hear science types talk about an observable process like evolution as an "it" and discusses 'it' as if it were a conscious entity. I am not nailing you individually UpN, but your comment reminded me of this pattern by many who discuss evolution (in any of it's theoretical constructions).

Evolution does not plan anything whether perfection, efficiency, flaw...because it isn't an entity. It is a term/system of discussion designed to codify the natural process of how things change over time so that people can understand it. It is a human construct designed to allow for easy communication about a topic.

As far as sex for procreation/other.... if sex was strictly a procreative function, then humans would follow the same 'heat' cycles that other mammals do such as deer. Yes, women have periods of higher or lower sexual drive depending on the point in the mentral cycle, but that is not the same as the 'heat/rut' season that other mammals go through to take advantage of the seasonal weather patterns to create the optimal bearing/birth/rearing timing given a particular environment.

We are 'higher thinkers' than other mammals and tend to engage in sex for many reasons: comfort, control/domination, lonliness, boredom, stress, pleasure, love, sadness, anger, demonstrative alliance....you name it, people have had sex because of it. I would say that the side benefit of those multitudes of reasons for sex to occur improves the likelihood that humans, who don't have mating seasons, will be more likely to have sex more often and therefore create more offspring.

I don't remember the type, but one naturalist/biologist spent many years observing a certian type of Chimp/monkey where troops used the act of sexual intercourse as a way to defuse internal power struggles, create alliances, reduce anger/apologize to each other while the males and females were 'out of heat.' During the mating seasons, the females were biologically capable of procreative results, but other than that they were not. These findings were all based on observable behavior. The funny thing (peculiar) is that compared to other types of chimps/monkeys, this type had far less violence within or between the different troops.

That said, of course the primary biological function of sex is procreation, but to say that the 'reason' that sex 'exists' is because 'evolution' wanted us to have more babies and not for other reasons is deification.

I would say that those who were/are more sexual by nature survive to create offspring who will carry on that trait and have more sex and so on down the line. Therefore, in times of genocide/disaster, this will improve our chances as a race of continuation.

 

[ginshun]

I keep hearing on here how hard it is to get pregnant.

I must be one luck dude.

 

[rutherford]

One of the interesting moral issues that comes into play is homosexuality. If sex is something done solely for procreation, then homosexuallity could rightly be viewed as something unnatural. If there are other factors though...

upnorthkyosa

To bring this point together with the ones concerning behavior observed in animals, I offer this link:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

And this one as an added bonus:

http://www.abc.net.au/science/features/queercreatures/

 

[Ray]

To bring this point together with the ones concerning behavior observed in animals, I offer this link:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

And this one as an added bonus:

http://www.abc.net.au/science/features/queercreatures/

The behavior of animals, in and of itself, is not sufficient cause to draw conclusions about human behavior.

After all, Chimps (as smart as they are) will not be house-broken; my well-fed dog and other dogs that I have observed eat *****. Neither changing my snacking habits or where I put my feces should be decided only upon what animals do.

 

[Phoenix44]

The biologists above simply note that ALL other animals have sex for procreation only. Why are humans different? They would posit that it is rediculous to claim that we are any different.

How does anyone know that animals have sex for procreation only. I'm fairly sure that animals, and humans, have sex because it feels good. That's the drive. Humans have sex before they're old enough to procreate, and after they're too old to procreate. Humans use birth control. Some humans and animals are homosexual. Humans have sex for love and intimacy. Dogs will **** your leg if they have a chance. Even Paramecia conjugate, and they're probably not "thinking" about procreating.

Ascribing a "purpose" to sex is teleological, as if birds grew wings for the purpose of flying. No, the reason we're all around now is because when sex feels good, animals do it a lot, and therefore procreate a lot, producing a lot more animals with really great feeling sex.

Kinda makes you wish you were a little MORE evolved, huh?

 

[Touch Of Death]

I think It goes deeper than biology for humans. As we were blessed or cursed with a conciosness, so we build our cultures around sex, be they a sexualy positive or negative. Most attributed a sex to their god or gods, even when monotheism swept the civilized world the Favored Goddess became masculinized or the God retained his sex, even though he was not born or requiring of a mate to pro-create that god was considered a potent male (Islam solved the pro-creation problem by stating that Allah doesn't create he already had it in the works... anyways) My point is that semanticly we are so programmed to respond to sexual imagry and expectation that our sexual choices are manifestations of how we see ourselves in the world.
Sean

 

[Tgace]

The way we think of sex with our brains isnt necessarily the same reason we have sex organs on our bodies. "We" do it for a variety of reasons...biologically we do it for one.

 

[Cryozombie]

Penguins have prostitutes.

Think I am lying? Look it up.

Penguins mate for life, but male penguins often engage in sexual behavior with females outside their partnership in exchange for nesting stones.

So Sex for Money... theres a motivation for you, that does not play into the idea of procreation. And Masturbation is a sexual activity, and that certainly has nothing to do with procreation either... yet I hear that people do it.

 

[Deuce]

Penguins have prostitutes.

Think I am lying? Look it up.

Penguins mate for life, but male penguins often engage in sexual behavior with females outside their partnership in exchange for nesting stones.

So Sex for Money... theres a motivation for you, that does not play into the idea of procreation. And Masturbation is a sexual activity, and that certainly has nothing to do with procreation either... yet I hear that people do it.

The pimp penquins are the ones wearing the designer tuxes?

 

[Adept]

The biologists above simply note that ALL other animals have sex for procreation only. Why are humans different? They would posit that it is rediculous to claim that we are any different.

Well, thats just silly. Humans are clearly different in many other ways. We blush (was Mark Twain right about that?), we feel regret, we have opposable thumbs, we wear clothes for no sensible reason, etc.

Sex=fun. Thats all there is to it. By yourself, with a friend or with a group. Its all good!

Are you trying to ask why its fun? Because that's a whole other question.