Why do people not understand

[Earl Weiss]

I couldn't believe that in the US people would actually let someone dictate to them what they could have access too?!

Seen it many times. When I hosted tournaments i would get inquiries. People who did not know us were reluctant to participate since they had no idea if we had our heads screwed on straight . (Safe, fair, etc. ) So, I told them to come watch, and if they liked watch as my guest. If they liked what they saw they could participate the following year.

Thinking I did not see them, I would follow up with a call. The answer was "My master would not let me watch." I wanted to yell at them "This is America". But I just said O.K. Same with some open seminars I hosted. A few came anyway secretly disobeying their instructors wishes.

 

[Tez3]

Part of the problem is that many Westeners do accept these strictures on what is basically their freedom because they are doing Oriental martial arts and they believe that to be doing it properly they have to adopt what they think are Oriental practices. They read books and watch films that show strict training and obedience to the 'Master' which leads to, usually, the 'hero/ine gaining magically good powers of fighting and 'enlightenment'. Too many people think this strict monk-like discipline is how you are supposed to learn martial arts, they embrace this 'discipline' with a fervour and positively go out to be as servile and so called humble as they can. A good many 'Master's and other instructors like to perpetuate this myth, after all it brings in money and isn't a bad ego trip either.

 

[terryl965]

no....

grand prairie....


drawing a blank here.

She got her BB though Grand Prairie Karate years ago and open a school twenty years or so. Grand Prairie is east of arlington and before Duncanville.

 

[terryl965]

I think it was a Jackie Chan movie where he said something like "I hear the words coming out of your mouth, but don't understand.
Why is a seperate org. needed to "guide and keep the sport side growing." The KKW could not do this because? Or Conversely the WTF could not do both because?
Now, I am not trying to be difficult. Has anyone else ever asked this sort of question. Seems like the elephant in the room.

Master Weiss as I understand it the IOC has to have a seperate org for the rules and seperate NGB for each country. I could be wrong but that is how it was kinda explain to me.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Master Weiss as I understand it the IOC has to have a seperate org for the rules and seperate NGB for each country. I could be wrong but that is how it was kinda explain to me.

That explains why there is the WTF and USAT, but it doesn't really answer the question as to why there is the WTF and the KKW.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Gnarlie]

It's like when a hit TV show scores a popular spin off show with one of the main characters - like Frasier.

Kukkiwon is the centre of the martial art, WTF is the spin off sport.

In this case the spin off is big and popular enough to warrant it's own governing org.

I think Kukkiwon would like it to be the case that you need to have watched the original show to enjoy the spin off - hence wanting international competitors to be KKW 1st Dan or higher. Still, really if it wasn't forced then I think some people would just enjoy the spin off without having to sit through Cheers.

Gnarlie

 

[WaterGal]

I think, maybe too optimistically?, that when people say they're a "WTF certified black belt" they mean that they have a certification as a black belt in the style of TKD promoted by the WTF. As opposed to getting a black belt in ATA or ITF TKD, or one of those unaffiliated TSD schools that call themselves TKD.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I think, maybe too optimistically?, that when people say they're a "WTF certified black belt" they mean that they have a certification as a black belt in the style of TKD promoted by the WTF. As opposed to getting a black belt in ATA or ITF TKD, or one of those unaffiliated TSD schools that call themselves TKD.

But that is still incorrect. The WTF does not promote a style. They promote a sport. Nothing more.

 

[bluewaveschool]

Yes and No, the US open you can and it is a rated WTF event but in some othe international event you have top be KKW certified.

Can I compete? Or am I still out since I'm not affiliated with anyone?

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

In Canada, the organisation to which Masters / GM's apply for black belts is called "WTF Taekwondo Association of Canada". The website is wtfcanada.com.

Since the black belt is via an organisation called "WTF...", I can certainly understand the confusion of WTF vs. Kukkiwon.

 

[tigycho]

Hey man, it is one of my pet peeves also. But you could be a WTF-certified dan for one year! LOL I once called a school in my state who advertised WTF certified etc. and such and I told him he was doing false advertising. He informed me that his GM from Fargo insisted upon it and that conversation was pretty much over.

Fargo, or Moorhead?

 

[mango.man]

How about this one Terry. It was several years ago and I probably posted here about it at the time but I once went by my daughter's original school where she learned up to 2nd poom. I needed to talk to one of the other parents about something and as I was standing outside the door to the dojang I noticed a flyer on the bulletin board inside. I pressed my nose against the window to read what it said and to my horror it was a notice from the lead instructor (now the owner) of the dojang.

It read:

Due to increased fees from The Kukkiwon belt test fees will be increased as follows
Yellow - Orange now $60
Blue - Red now $70

I thought to myself "too bad none of these parents realize that Kukkiwon doesn't give a crap about any color belt other than Black. Also too bad none of these parents realize that Kukkiwon has not even raised their fee for Black Belt in several years."

 

[miguksaram]

Can I compete? Or am I still out since I'm not affiliated with anyone?

In an international event you have to be KKW certified. As long as you have that, you should be good to go, they do not care if you are with a school or not, if I remember correctly. In local WTF sanctioned events I do not believe it matters if you are KKW certified or not nor does it matter if you are with a school or not, as long as you play by their rules.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Been reading posts and thinking about why 2 orgs were needed. Can't help but wonder if it stemmed from the early days and inclusiveness of the KKW where everything was TKD and any number of systems could get rank certs. thru the KKW. Now, for competition there had to be a unified rule set.

Instead of instituting a single rule set that could be viewed as exclusionary which would run contrary to the inclusiveness model the solution was to have a sister org set the competition standard.

Any KKW people see any merit to this theory?

 

[punisher73]

After I read through this thread and read it, I can see why people are still confused about it...

At least everyone agrees about the history of the art...oh wait :angel:

 

[Earl Weiss]

Just read Current issue of Totally TKD interview with He - Young Kimm an interesting excerpt. :
Q: Who were the people who put together the rules for Olympic Sparring and when were they forst used.
A: Dr. Un Yung ikm, when he became president in 1971, said he had a dream for TKD to go to the Olympics> Tp achieve that dream he said he forst had to create an umbrella....

There is much more, but I felt this part was on point.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

In Canada, the organisation to which Masters / GM's apply for black belts is called "WTF Taekwondo Association of Canada". The website is wtfcanada.com.

I now read in the September 2012 Annual General Meeting draft minutes that the name is being changed to Taekwondo Canada. I guess other people also felt the WTF reference was confusing!