Who will impact EPAK the most in the next 10 years?

[Brother John]

I am excited that I have been able to find the AKKI and a local school in which to begin learning the art!

- Gabe

Welcome to the AKKI Bro.
Enjoy!!!!
Your Brother
John

 

[scfgabe]

Thanks for the acknowledgment, Brother John! This is exactly why the AKKI is the place where I have chosen to train. Everyone is very supportive of each other.

Take care,

Gabe

 

[Doc]

One person that id like to see and no a little more about is one Mr Tommy Chavies. Doesnt seem to be much about him on this thread yet he is beginning to be a rather large influence in Australian American Kenpo.

Look on the tree. He got his black from me in the seventies. Left before I got permission to begin teaching SubLevel Four.

 

[Simon Curran]

I voted other,

but to clarify, (this is purely a personal opinion) I actually meant every kenpoist I have the fortune to come into contact with will (at least for me) have a huge impact, since I am simply interested in learning as much as I possibly can, whatever the source.
Should this mean that I never make it so far as to be able to call myself instructor/master whatever then so be it, for me the journey is a personal one, and I am relishing every minute of it.
I look forward to meeting as many of the people mentioned in this thread as possible, as well as those not mentioned
Thanks
Simon

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Here's a question...who WILL influence kenpo over the next decade, or...who SHOULD influence it over the next decade. Hmm.

 

[Simon Curran]

Hopefully we all will in our own little way...

 

[dmdfromhamilton]

Adrian roman and his shameless Black Belt for mail with not Even a Video Test

 

[cushion_kitty]

You wrote:
(see The Psychology of Confrontation, The Gift of Fear).


Are the above books, videos, seminars, or what?

(Sorry for any apparent violation of posting rules--this is my very first post!)

 

[Ginsu]

just an observation but i have noticed that there is alot of votes for Mr Tatum and Mr Mills. it is intrigueing to see that there are alot of votes going towards the 'mainstream' instructors in the art. Which is a good thing.

Nick,
Just curious why do you see this as a good thing that a lot of votes are going to mainstream instructors? Again only curious.....


Ginsu

 

[Kenpohermit]

This is my first post on Martial Talk so please bare with me as I get the hang of it... I voted for Larry Tatum, I am not a member of his organization or anything and I do feel that lots of seniors have done a great deal for Kenpo, but picking all of them was not really what this is about, so I pick Larry Tatum because (understand this is just my opinion) but I like the outlook his students have on American Kenpo some of his students really impress me and when they explain American Kenpo they dont fall off the deep end. I guess I like that attitude they have and its going to be the students of these people who are going to be the future of Kenpo, All the seniors impress me lol It was a tough choice.


From: Sami

 

[KenpoTess]

I'm being the odd one out.. I'm going to come back in 10 yrs and answer this

~Tess

 

[Gin-Gin]

I'm being the odd one out.. I'm going to come back in 10 yrs and answer this ~Tess

 

[Kalicombat]

I dont think any of those mentioned in the initial poll will be the person to move kenpo along. They have moved it already and flavored kenpo with their spice. I think we need to look toward some of their students to pick up the torch and impact kenpo. However, I dont think any style merging or changing up techniques will be the medium to impact kenpo in the near future. I think it will be the person or group that brings people back to kenpo. Those that will expose the world to the effectiveness of what kenpo has to offer and not try to re-invent the wheel. The person or persons that can take the curriculum and show people that whatever they are looking for in a self defense system can be found with in the kenpo parameters. Not to say that a TKD practitioner is gonna find their flipping-spinning-blindfolded-upside- down-back kicks here, but that when that kick misses, our strikes and techniques, based on our principles of motion will be there to back up their material. We as kenpoists should not try to find the hidden grappling secrets in our system, but rather show the grapplers how much more effective their system could be with our flavor added to their pot.

Just my 2 pesos,
Gary C.

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

I dont think any of those mentioned in the initial poll will be the person to move kenpo along. They have moved it already and flavored kenpo with their spice. I think we need to look toward some of their students to pick up the torch and impact kenpo. However, I dont think any style merging or changing up techniques will be the medium to impact kenpo in the near future. I think it will be the person or group that brings people back to kenpo. Those that will expose the world to the effectiveness of what kenpo has to offer and not try to re-invent the wheel. The person or persons that can take the curriculum and show people that whatever they are looking for in a self defense system can be found with in the kenpo parameters. Not to say that a TKD practitioner is gonna find their flipping-spinning-blindfolded-upside- down-back kicks here, but that when that kick misses, our strikes and techniques, based on our principles of motion will be there to back up their material. We as kenpoists should not try to find the hidden grappling secrets in our system, but rather show the grapplers how much more effective their system could be with our flavor added to their pot.

Just my 2 pesos,
Gary C.

You're starting to sound like me, I've advocated that position for so many years only to fall on deaf ears. Somehow, there's some magic associated with altering the original design. There are those that understand the material and those that don't, and the latter normally change things to fit them, to the detriment of future AK practicioners.

DarK LorD

 

[Brother John]

There are those that understand the material and those that don't, and the latter normally change things to fit them, to the detriment of future AK practicioners.
DarK LorD

Not all that create change and bring about innovation do so because of a lack of understanding. Some do so due to a surplus of it.
I believe that Mr. Mills is one of these.

Your Brother
John
:asian:

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

Not all that create change and bring about innovation do so because of a lack of understanding. Some do so due to a surplus of it.
I believe that Mr. Mills is one of these.

Your Brother
John
:asian:

I tell you what John, if you, or any other AKKI member, can show me one new technique in your system that isn't already covered, be it technique, principle or concept, and completely different from the system I do, I'll write a retraction to any all statements I've made concerning the NEW AKKI material and will make no further mention of Mr. Mills or the AkKI in print.

DarK LorD

 

[Kalicombat]

I tell you what John, if you, or any other AKKI member, can show me one new technique in your system that isn't already covered, be it technique, principle or concept, and completely different from the system I do, I'll write a retraction to any all statements I've made concerning the NEW AKKI material and will make no further mention of Mr. Mills or the AkKI in print.

DarK LorD

I have to agree with Clyde on this one. All the different EPAK-based systems out there have done nothing at all except re-arrange the EPAK system. Most have deleted a bunch, and changed the order in which movements are executed in a given technique. They say the have "created" new forms, which, I guess they have seeing as how they have strung together some movements, but that is pretty much what we're talking about here.

What happens when Kenpoist A, takes the curriculum he learned from SGM Parker or one of his first generation students, and changes it, removes the repetitious material, adds some ground work, and calls it "something else KENPO"..... and then, one of his students, we'll call him Kenpoist B, does the same thing after learning Kenpoist A's "new" system, only this time, he removes the repetitous material, adds elements of whatever martial art craze is filling Blackbelt magazine at the time, and calls IT "something-or-other KENPO", different from Kenpoist A's system????? All the while, continuing to call it Kenpo. See where Im going...... Sooner or later, someones gonna say, "hmmm, all these "something-or-other kenpo" systems started with EPAK. Why dont I go look at that system and see what attracted so many people to it". Then you will have the rejuvenation of our kenpo, EPAK, be it the 16 or 24 technique system. Well, if it hasnt yet started, the rejuvenation that is, it is about to. Go to Ebay and look at all the kenpo systems offering free rank certificates with the purchase of "Something-or-other Kenpo" dvd's, videos, and cd-roms.

The most popular home study EPAK off shoot system out there right now, the IKCA, has a problem something like what I described. An original EPAK'er switched over to the IKCA, I believe he was a 3rd black in EPAK when he did so. He stayed with the IKCA for 11 years and rose to the rank of 7th or 8th. He is an 8th on his website, but I dont know if he got that from the IKCA or not. Now, he has created his own system. It has 110 techniques, blending the best of EPAK and the best of the IKCA material. The IKCA system has 55 techniques, EPAK has 154, so now, where are we at. We have a guy adding material to a stripped down version of the original. HMMMMM. WHy not just teach EPAK and cover all his bases.

After this lengthy post, what Im getting at, is that innovation, for innovations sake alone, is futile. I'll give another example of what Im trying to say. My wife, NOT ITALIAN, knows that spaghetti is one of my favorite meals in the world. When we first met, she tried to create some fantastic sauces to attract me and satisfy my spaghetti tooth. She had all kind of recipes, and tried them all. When it comes down to it though, all the same ingredients were in each and every tomatoe sauce she tried. Nothing new, no secret recipes, just the basics; tomatoes, garlic, onions, olive oil, and spices. She didnt create a sauce, but simply rearranged the ingredients in varying quantities. After a few months of pretty terrible experimentation, I told her to go to the grocery store and buy some Ragu. The company that makes Ragu has been doing so for along time with much success. She was dissappointed, maybe at the fact that she couldnt beat a commercial sauce in my eyes, maybe that she'd never see any of her sauces bottled up on the shelves of the grocery stores of America, or maybe at the fact that she realized through her experimentation, that ya realy cant do too much to improve on something that doesnt need improved upon.

Gary C.

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

I have to agree with Clyde on this one. All the different EPAK-based systems out there have done nothing at all except re-arrange the EPAK system. Most have deleted a bunch, and changed the order in which movements are executed in a given technique. They say the have "created" new forms, which, I guess they have seeing as how they have strung together some movements, but that is pretty much what we're talking about here.

What happens when Kenpoist A, takes the curriculum he learned from SGM Parker or one of his first generation students, and changes it, removes the repetitious material, adds some ground work, and calls it "something else KENPO"..... and then, one of his students, we'll call him Kenpoist B, does the same thing after learning Kenpoist A's "new" system, only this time, he removes the repetitous material, adds elements of whatever martial art craze is filling Blackbelt magazine at the time, and calls IT "something-or-other KENPO", different from Kenpoist A's system????? All the while, continuing to call it Kenpo. See where Im going...... Sooner or later, someones gonna say, "hmmm, all these "something-or-other kenpo" systems started with EPAK. Why dont I go look at that system and see what attracted so many people to it". Then you will have the rejuvenation of our kenpo, EPAK, be it the 16 or 24 technique system. Well, if it hasnt yet started, the rejuvenation that is, it is about to. Go to Ebay and look at all the kenpo systems offering free rank certificates with the purchase of "Something-or-other Kenpo" dvd's, videos, and cd-roms.

The most popular home study EPAK off shoot system out there right now, the IKCA, has a problem something like what I described. An original EPAK'er switched over to the IKCA, I believe he was a 3rd black in EPAK when he did so. He stayed with the IKCA for 11 years and rose to the rank of 7th or 8th. He is an 8th on his website, but I dont know if he got that from the IKCA or not. Now, he has created his own system. It has 110 techniques, blending the best of EPAK and the best of the IKCA material. The IKCA system has 55 techniques, EPAK has 154, so now, where are we at. We have a guy adding material to a stripped down version of the original. HMMMMM. WHy not just teach EPAK and cover all his bases.

After this lengthy post, what Im getting at, is that innovation, for innovations sake alone, is futile. I'll give another example of what Im trying to say. My wife, NOT ITALIAN, knows that spaghetti is one of my favorite meals in the world. When we first met, she tried to create some fantastic sauces to attract me and satisfy my spaghetti tooth. She had all kind of recipes, and tried them all. When it comes down to it though, all the same ingredients were in each and every tomatoe sauce she tried. Nothing new, no secret recipes, just the basics; tomatoes, garlic, onions, olive oil, and spices. She didnt create a sauce, but simply rearranged the ingredients in varying quantities. After a few months of pretty terrible experimentation, I told her to go to the grocery store and buy some Ragu. The company that makes Ragu has been doing so for along time with much success. She was dissappointed, maybe at the fact that she couldnt beat a commercial sauce in my eyes, maybe that she'd never see any of her sauces bottled up on the shelves of the grocery stores of America, or maybe at the fact that she realized through her experimentation, that ya realy cant do too much to improve on something that doesnt need improved upon.

Gary C.

Now this is logical thinking. Thank you for your pragmatic view.

And, to whoever neg repped me as Torquemada, thank your for the compliment, the Grand Inquisitor of Kenpo . Shame, you'll never have the clarity of Kenpo that I have.

DarK LorD

 

[Mark Weiser]

I have to agree with ya on this one guys. I started out learning IKCA system then went out and started looking at all the Videos and Home Study system out here on the web.

I finally decided that the orginal system of SGM Parker is the only way to go and find an instructor that teaches this system in its entire format. So I will make the trip once a month starting this June and train one on one with one of SGM Parkers first generaton BB's.

 

[Kalicombat]

I have to agree with ya on this one guys. I started out learning IKCA system then went out and started looking at all the Videos and Home Study system out here on the web.

I finally decided that the orginal system of SGM Parker is the only way to go and find an instructor that teaches this system in its entire format. So I will make the trip once a month starting this June and train one on one with one of SGM Parkers first generaton BB's.

Mark,
I see you have taken some good advice from JBUGG. Who are you going to be training under? Also, and I know this may ruffle a feather or two, but on your profile, I would definitely delete any mention of Dragon Kenpo. To most of the folks in the Kenpo world, or at least on this and most other forums, Dragon Kenpo is a joke. Not unlike many of the other "GET YOUR BB CERTIFICATE WHEN YOU ORDER OUR VIDEOS" shams being run on the web.

Good luck in your training,
Gary C.