Who here is backing up its striking art with grappling?

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by cdhall
Mr. Sears (don't know his full name or anything) was confronted with this and asked for volunteers and someone with a stopwatch to time him. He Repeatedly made people tap in under 1 second. 0.75 seconds might have been the record for the day, but it was one of the times I remember. He was of course trying to get his guy to tap, I imagine that if he went straight for the knockout, he would have been faster.

Hi Doug-

In competition, whether judo or otherwise, most people tap not because the choke has been sunk in very well, but because of the pain or pressure on their trachea. I can make someone want to tap almost immediately even with a very bad choke by sawing on that area of the throat.

This is not the same thing as actually knocking someone unconscious by restricting the air or blood flow to the brain.

I say again that from personal experience it is highly highly unlikely that depriving someone for 2 seconds is going to put them to sleep. I have never seen it in a class, I have never seen it in competition, I have never seen it on the street out of maybe two dozen incidents where a sleeperhold was used by my fellow doormen. These were incidents where we were trying to actually put a BG out cold, not trying to make him 'tap' in a seminar as 'Mr Sears' was doing.

Making someone tap, and actually putting them out are two different things, don't be fooled into thinking this guy was doing something he was not.

We don't really. We've never choked anyone out in class, getting them to tap is enough. You have established at that point that they are no longer a threat. They are worried about not passing out and very often they will comply.

Hi Doug- no offense, then I don't think you really have experience enough or proof to contradict me when I suggest that unconsciousness in 2 seconds or cutting the blood to the brain by 99% is an extreme exaggeration.

Judoka, sub wrestlers and BJJ guys do end up with people passing out. I saw a Vale Tudo fighter knocked out for 15 seconds with a clock choke two saturdays ago, that was the last one I've seen. And believe me, I've never seen a 2 second knockout from a choke.

 

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by Zoran



Anything is possible. It's not just the lack of blood flow, it's also the lack of air. I had to apply a choke hold on a person that was trying to fight me. I've done this 100 times, most did not pass out completely. Well I had the choke on this person for less than 3 seconds. He went completely limp and passed out. Scared me pretty bad, I thought I killed him. It took a good 2 minutes to wake him up.

So yes, it is possible.

Funny, most people wake up after about 15-20 seconds.

I am an open-minded person, but when it comes to close combat 'anything' is not possible, the human body is very predictable. I don't believe in people falling unconscious for no reason, in a click of the fingers.

 

[Zoran]

Originally posted by Morpheus



Funny, most people wake up after about 15-20 seconds.

I am an open-minded person, but when it comes to close combat 'anything' is not possible, the human body is very predictable. I don't believe in people falling conscious for no reason, in a click of the fingers when there is no reason for them to.

That has been my experience too. This was an exception. It could be he passed out from other reasons. Low pain tolerance, fear, medical problems, etc. The human body is not always predictable, there is quite a bit we don't know. Let's just say most people fit in that 99% category. There is that 1% that may not be in the norm.

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by Morpheus



Hi Doug- no offense, then I don't think you really have experience enough or proof to contradict me when I suggest that unconsciousness in 2 seconds or cutting the blood to the brain by 99% is an extreme exaggeration.

Morpheus,

You are correct. I don't have experience in this arena beyond what I described and I don't watch many matches on TV or go to them in person, so I do agree that you have more evidence than I do. But now I'm curious. I'm going to go visit a BJJ school near me and ask them about this.

Thank you. This is a very cool and very useful website.
:asian:

 

[MTisGreat]

who here is backin up thier grappling with strikin...huh...huh???

 

[SolidTiger]

when I first started training in martial arts I started in a class
that teched kung fu and the art of self defence, and I've learned
and letter I have learned the hard fighting style of American Kenpo. when I fight I use certain technique that I really like or
just do plan well when I use them. I try to do whatever I can so
I try to go for the most effective. sometimes the most effective
is confusion and when you change you style or ad a pounch from
kenpo and kicks from kung fu your opponent will not know what
your going to do next....he he he

 

[MTisGreat]

can someone tell me what the major arts are in MMA?...

 

[Kempojujutsu]

Most MMA fighters crosstrain in various arts. I am sure that I will leave a few out but here goes my list.

Grappling Arts Striking Arts
BJJ Muay Thai
JJJ Boxing
Judo Kenpo
Sambo Karate (in general)
Free Style Wrestling

Several Arts combine both Grappling and Striking.

Kempojujutsu
Jeet Kune Do
Shootfighting
Lute livea
Vale Tudo
Chute Boxing
Pancrase
Pankration
Pit fighting
San Shou
Bob





Bob :boxing: :drinkbeer :drinkbeer :boxing: :boxing:

 

[SolidTiger]

If a person could get knockout with a single blow, I think a
person could get choked out in two seconds...

Thank you..

SolidTiger

"Sometimes the wind deroots the tree"

 

[LanceWildcat1]

Actually, I went the other way around. I studied Jiujitsu about 30 years ago, and always wanted to back it up with a striking art. Because of time, family, etc., I just recently started karate in order to have a good striking art, and also to exercise my body following some rather radical surgical 'mods' to my body.
Lance Hyatt

 

[sweeper]

well the lack of blood flow is the big one, if there is no blood flowing than it doesn't matter how well you can breath. Also you can cut 100% of someone's air flow (like when someone holds thier breath) and they can fight for a quite a bit.

I would argue that tap outs are not chokes, tap outs are actualy faster than chokes because you tap before you go out. Also if someone has never been out they usualy panic and tap so it might be fear of going out or fading or it could be pain that forces them to tap. Of course I wasn't there so I can't realy speak on the specific case, just my experience with others.

I'm also in cdhall's camp, never been choked out but have been close. In my experience alot of it depends on the situation though if someone is holding their chin higher up and is caught by suprise it's alot easyer to choke them than someone who has their chin low and is trying to twist out.

 

[Bushido]

Originally posted by SolidTiger

If a person could get knockout with a single blow, I think a
person could get choked out in two seconds...

Thank you..

SolidTiger

"Sometimes the wind deroots the tree"

I hate when people are spreading false information. It is NOT physically possible to choke someone in two seconds. The choke has to do its effects, and the time required is a little different depending on the constitution of the oppenent. generally, it takes a full 10 seconds to choke someone out. After 10 seconds, release the grip and if he is not out, reapply for 4-5 seconds...then he will be out.


-Bushido

 

[SolidTiger]

Originally posted by Bushido



I hate when people are spreading false information. It is NOT physically possible to choke someone in two seconds. The choke has to do its effects, and the time required is a little different depending on the constitution of the oppenent. generally, it takes a full 10 seconds to choke someone out. After 10 seconds, release the grip and if he is not out, reapply for 4-5 seconds...then he will be out.


-Bushido

It can be possible to make someone passout from lack of air or
blood flow to the brain. A person can still have air in their body when they passout. So it can happen...

Thank You

SolidTiger

 

[Bushido]

My friend, you should try bjj or judo to see for yourself.

-Bushido

 

[SolidTiger]

You never know I might someday, I'm still young right now.

Thank You

SolidTiger

 

[arnisador]

Are we distinguishing between a choke (air supply) and a strangle (blood supply)? I think a person can be strangled out fairly quickly.

 

[LanceWildcat1]

I have to agree with Bushido. It takes between 8 and 10 seconds to fully put someone out with a choke. And, if they don't submit within the first 5-7 seconds, chances are, they are going to be unable to do so. I've had it done to me, and I've done it to a few people, myself.

 

[arnisador]

My BJJ instructor says if they don't submit after 10 seconds, give up on the choke and try something else.

 

[SolidTiger]

Will do you think it is possible for that person to faint, from
lack of air or blood flow, because thats what I think make
a fighter passout . The body shuts down like a switch.

Thank You

SolidTiger

 

[LanceWildcat1]

When the brain is deprived of either oxygen or blood, it shuts down rapidly.:asian: