Whimpier kids?

[Em MacIntosh]

Tell them it's a contact sport.
Ignore the whininess.
If it becomes a big enough problem talk to the kids and ask them if they want to be there. If that doesn't work tell them you will talk to the parents. Talk to the parents about what's going on and make reccomendations, "perhaps _____ would be more enjoyable for your child" etc.
This is a bigger problem in the MA than a lot of people think. The bleeding hearts feel that MA should be made so everybody can do it. Even if you're a child, if you're not tough enough (EVERYBODY is as tough as they HAVE to be given a particular situation), it's not going to get any easier. So many schools have catered to every crowd, weak of will or not. I consider this to be akin to the McDojos, espeacially when they apply it to the adults as well. Don't get it twisted, I'm just saying when you're being kicked to death in the corner, whether you're squeeling for mommy or asking for more is irrellevant when neither of you is getting any mercy. Children have to learn what toughness is and how it applies to what they're doing at a young age. The best way to protect your children is to encourage them to be a human and do human things. Humans work, argue, get sick and have all kinds of unpleasant things to deal with. Protecting them from life makes them weak of will. Two more cents.

 

[Jade Tigress]

We don't have kids at my school, nor have I witnessed this at my son's tkd class. However, I do believe it is a byproduct of the way many kids are raised today. We have a neighbor whose son just turned 7. We are friends so I have first hand experience with the way the kid is being raised. Now, I don't mean to be mean towards a kid here, but I have to honestly say that boy is the biggest ***** I have ever seen and I feel sorry for his future years.

 

[DavidCC]

The best way to handle this is to seperate the student from the rest of the group until they get themselves together.

I don't agree, at least with this initial statement. 2 situations: a kid has suffered a littel ding or knock and is crying over it; a kid is not performing well and has started crying under the pressure. In neither case do we seperate them or treat this as being in any way worthy of special treatment.

Now, if a kid were to be hurt that would be different. But sometiems they cry over little knocks and bumps that don't hurt anything except their feelings. I usually will just call them over to me, inspect the "injury", tell them they are fine, and send them back to the drill.

For those kids with tears over performance stress, the last thing we would want to do is seperate them and give them some special good attention. that just reinforces the idea that they are different than the others, that their weakness is in fact a strength (because it gets them what they want - special attention).

So let's say we have the class in a circle and a kid testing in the middle. he forgets. he gets flustered. he starts to cry. it goes something like this : "Steve, your losing control of your emotions. Take a deep breath, and make it go away. you know how to do this, I've seen you do it a hundred times in class, so just get control of yourself and let's get on with it." Might repeat that a second time. it is very impressive to see a 6 year old swallow his tears, set his intention, and fight to get what he wants. If the student can't get it together, then they sit down on the circle, their test is over. End of Story.

And yes the Moms and some Dads do freak out a bit especially if their "baby" fails, why are we so "mean". But when their "child" gets through that wall you've never seen a happier parent. then they love us for the growth their child has shown.

Not being able to deal with stress or adversity is a weakness, and our job is to eliminate weaknesses in our students ESPECIALLY THIS ONE. I mean, if I had to name ONE THING that a kid could expect to get out of coming to our dojo, it would be the strength to overcome adversity.

So we don't give them any breaks. By making them stand there and work throug it, we are telling them that this is a small thing, not a crisis. We tell them to get it under control, our students know we would not tell them to do something which they are incapable of doing. We re-direct tham away from their feelings and back to the task at hand. Finally, if they are unable to conquer this challenge, then they FAIL their test and work harder until they can. The last thing we would ever do is give a kid who lost control of their emotions any kind of positive feedback on it.

Most kids never have this problem, at leat not to a degree that we have to notice it. The ones that do get over it after one or two times.

 

[Sukerkin]

That's a doorstep evaluation of the heart of the problem there, JT :tup:.

I'm not for a moment advocating that kids should be beaten every day to make sure they're tough enough for what the world has in store but if they grow to school age without realising that "No Johnny, the world does not revolve around you" then they're in for a much bigger emotional shock when the time comes.

A kid needs to be able to find out what constitutes 'safe' for themselves and all you can do is a parent is make as sure as you can that they survive the experience.

A little case in point from my own life. How did I find out that fire burns and hurts? After repeated verbal warnings from my mother and several attempts to 'touch' the fire being intercepted by her, I managed to circumvent her defence and achieve my goal.

The result? Not unsurprisingly, much wailing and tears, much hugs and loving consolation from mother along with some subversive "Perhaps you'll listen to me next time!" propoganda :lol:.

Was I badly hurt? No because my mother was there to whisk me away and perform the necessary 'repairs'. Did I mess with fire thoughlessly again? Likewise, no.

It's a simple homily but one that 'scales up' nicely to the general problem I think .

EDIT: Splendid anecdote and approach, David.

 

[searcher]

What it shows is the breakdown of our society. You are correct if you said that our children are wimpier. That is the reason we had a 9-11-01. A few year ago we would never have had this happen. We used to have heroes like The Duke and Clint Eastwood that we all looked up to when we were kids and now they have ????, nobody. We had Transformers and GI Joe and they now have SpongeBob. Other countries were scared to death of us and it brought order. We tell the kids that, "it will be ok" and "you don't haveto work hard for anything." What a load of crap. When a kid falls down and get a scrape tell them to get up and tough it out. If the parents don't like it then so be it, their kids will always be prey. I have had a few of the wuss kids in my classes and I am tired of it. I used to try and help them out of it slowly, I am getting tired of waiting on them to grow up. If we want to get respect from the rest of the world we need to get over all this touchy-feely be nice and play nice with others trash and get back to being the shoot first, shoot some more, and maybe ask a question or two society that we need to be. It is time for us to transform the image we project to the world and start taking it to others. The kids will be better off and the terrorists will not even think of messing with us again.

Thank you for letting me rant.

 

[jks9199]

What it shows is the breakdown of our society. You are correct if you said that our children are wimpier. That is the reason we had a 9-11-01. A few year ago we would never have had this happen. We used to have heroes like The Duke and Clint Eastwood that we all looked up to when we were kids and now they have ????, nobody. We had Transformers and GI Joe and they now have SpongeBob. Other countries were scared to death of us and it brought order. We tell the kids that, "it will be ok" and "you don't haveto work hard for anything." What a load of crap. When a kid falls down and get a scrape tell them to get up and tough it out. If the parents don't like it then so be it, their kids will always be prey. I have had a few of the wuss kids in my classes and I am tired of it. I used to try and help them out of it slowly, I am getting tired of waiting on them to grow up. If we want to get respect from the rest of the world we need to get over all this touchy-feely be nice and play nice with others trash and get back to being the shoot first, shoot some more, and maybe ask a question or two society that we need to be. It is time for us to transform the image we project to the world and start taking it to others. The kids will be better off and the terrorists will not even think of messing with us again.

Thank you for letting me rant.

Sorry...

John Wayne couldn't have prevented the terrorist attacks of 9-11-01. Nor is it really likely that a more "kick-***" attitude prior to then would have -- though there's a very good argument that if a certain former president had been more interested in international affairs than extramarital affairs, it might have been.

The simple reality is that the US hasn't had the option of isolationism, nor of imposing a "Pax Americana" for some time. The world's economies, as well as world politics just don't allow it; we aren't strong enough to defeat all our potential enemies, either sequentially or most especially en masse. Nobody is, because the only practical defeat of a true guerrilla movement (almost certain that there would be one...) would destroy the ideals that the US was founded upon. And even then -- it probably wouldn't work.

But that's not really germaine to the thread.

I do agree that many kids today are not used to the physical bumps or emotional bruises that were once common. Nor are they exposed to smallpox... It's not necessarily a bad thing that, until the current generation, it's been almost certain that each generation at least had the potential to inherit a better life than their parents enjoyed. Even today, we're seeing more home ownership, more small business start ups (and of course, failures; I'm not saying that everything is perfect!), and enjoying a more varied and leisure-filled lifestyle, even as we work more. (I know... there's a paradox there!) But, along the way, some people have become so preoccupied with making sure that things are better for their kids that they've managed to make childhood a "Nerf world" wrapped in bubblewrap. It's a sad truth that life is just not fair, that there are things in the world that hurt us physically or emotionally, and that some folks just don't like us, and that most games have winners -- and losers. (FYI...kids generally know who's scoring more even if their parents aren't keeping score!)

I'm all for making childhood safer -- but that doesn't mean is should be all Candyland and fun. There's plenty of room for bumps and bruises and embarassment and sorrow -- while still taking advantage of things that prevent serious harm or death, like bike helmets, football pads, or seat belts.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

To feel one's own anger and to be afraid of that anger is the epidomy of ineptibility. Bleeding hearts will not tell me how to raise my child, nor will a rough'n tough pessimist. I feel a child must be encouraged to understand what a perspective is, and to understand what conciousness means to them. For them to develop their own accurate perspective on reality. A chance for them to learn their own wisdom and to respect, but not blindly follow, the wisdom of others. A balance must be found between shelter and exposure, independance and authority, responsibility and creativity. I can't stand it when a kid comes off their bike, dusts themselves off, feels the pain, but only cries when they noticed that they skinned their knee. Ya blood's supposed to be on the inside but it's not the end of the world. Why some kids are so much more susceptible to that kind of psychology I'll never know but it reminds me of a baby who bumps it's head, looks around, and will only cry if it notices someone witnessed it. I think the opposite kind of attention to that which they expect might work better. We had whiners growing up in my day too. I quit crying once I learned nobody cares. (I think you can cry when you get kicked in the nuts though...)

 

[Shotochem]

Hi All,

IMO, lack of toughness is the cause of many of our problems in society. It's all our own fault. We love our kids so much and never want them to feel pain and we want to give them all the things we couldn't have when we were younger.

The feeling and sentiment is good and from the heart. The ramifications of our more kinder gentler society are as follows: Just one small example.

In the old days kids would get into a disagreement and there would be a fight in the playground after school. A bloody lip and it was over we shook hands afterwards and were friends the next day.

Today fighting is unacceptable. A fist fight is real up and personal and rather distasteful to todays kids. The outcome a Columbine-like situation where the anger just keeps building up until someone snaps. IMO the old days seemed just a little bit better in that respect.

Their parents never listened to them or kept track of them. They bought material goods to replace them. Lazy parenting and lack of effort. Coddling and excuse making though well intentioned will ultimately hurt them and our society when they get older.

We are PARENTS we are not our Childrens friends. It is our job to make them self sufficient well adjusted citizens that contribute to society.

Maybe I'm just a rambling dis-illusioned old fool......or maby I'm not?


-Marc-

 

[Laurentkd]

To feel one's own anger and to be afraid of that anger is the epidomy of ineptibility. Bleeding hearts will not tell me how to raise my child, nor will a rough'n tough pessimist. I feel a child must be encouraged to understand what a perspective is, and to understand what conciousness means to them. For them to develop their own accurate perspective on reality. A chance for them to learn their own wisdom and to respect, but not blindly follow, the wisdom of others. A balance must be found between shelter and exposure, independance and authority, responsibility and creativity. I can't stand it when a kid comes off their bike, dusts themselves off, feels the pain, but only cries when they noticed that they skinned their knee. Ya blood's supposed to be on the inside but it's not the end of the world. Why some kids are so much more susceptible to that kind of psychology I'll never know but it reminds me of a baby who bumps it's head, looks around, and will only cry if it notices someone witnessed it. I think the opposite kind of attention to that which they expect might work better. We had whiners growing up in my day too. I quit crying once I learned nobody cares. (I think you can cry when you get kicked in the nuts though...)

When my niece was toddling about and would fall, we would just say "bonk!" and laugh. She would laugh too...usually after being only seconds away from crying. She is a pretty tough kid now!

 

[Sukerkin]

We are PARENTS we are not our Childrens friends. It is our job to make them self sufficient well adjusted citizens that contribute to society.

I think that was the sound of a nail head and a hammer being united there :tup:.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

When my niece was toddling about and would fall, we would just say "bonk!" and laugh. She would laugh too...usually after being only seconds away from crying. She is a pretty tough kid now!

I was talking to a psychologist yesterday and brought up that point. She said it's mostly in the parent's reaction to a child bumping their head. If a mother puts her hand to my mouth and goes "oh my god my poor baby" the child learns to react in a similar fashion. Children will usually look to their parent to see how they're supposed to react and then act accordingly. Just what I heard.

 

[Shaderon]

Yep sounds right Em, my daughteer cries when she falls down when at my parents house yet with me she just gets up and carries on and sometimes laughs about it... unless she REALLY hurt herself then there's a few tears, a rubbed knee and a struggle to get on off and play again.

Totally the way she was treated by us all when a toddler.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

Ya. You can usually tell when they really hurt themselves. I think at the age where you have greater degree of control over what you cry about, save it for things worth crying over. Not to say we need to bury our feelings. I don't see letting out feelings that are unecessary (or nonexistent) as any better. Like anything it seems to be about balance and walking fine lines. I don't have children myself but I imagine parenting to be the same. You can't be too harsh and you can't be too lenient. What works for one child might not work for the other. Be like water, my freind.