Which style of Karate is right for me?

[dancingalone]

Well, I only made the comment 'if you don't mind arthritis in later life which I don't think was actually saying you will definitely get it. It was a general comment not made totally seriously but one that may cause people to think for a moment before going out and bashing stones, trees etc willy nilly.

If you meant it tongue-in-cheek, then please disregard my comments.

I don't think people would go out and bash rocks or trees willy-nilly. That would be rather stupid and probably painful.

I don't think a few words can be overgeneralising and if I want to think of myself as middle aged I certainly will whatever the life expectancy is anywhere!

You can think of yourself as whatever age you want! I am going on 29... Again!

I don't see the point in bashing inanimate objects myself preferring the fight clever techniques or just plain running away but if people want to do them they should make sure they aren't doing themselves any damage first.

Fair enough. You don't train in systems that value or follow the practice. I come from a heavy Okinawan Goju-ryu background and this is just something we do. We favor strengthening the body's muscles, joints, and bones to both protect ourselves from blows as well as to deliver damage ourselves. Add good punching technique to a conditioned fist, and the results can be devastating.

 

[K-man]

You know better than that, Tez, to overgeneralize. My sensei has rather huge punching knuckles and he has no arthristis and he's in his sixties. Still has a fairly successful acupuncture practice too.

It's as Tez said .... later in life! I consider your sensei to be in the prime of life. Later is later. Don't know when that is for him. Possibly in another 20 years or so!!

 

[dancingalone]

No offense, Kman, but is there really a point to dragging on that line of discussion? The last quarter of (most) people's lives is usually called a 'later' stage. At least it is in my understanding of English.

Yes, people have been known to live upwards of a hundred years. Yes, you are free to call yourself whatever label you prefer, regardless of your age.

 

[K-man]

No offense, Kman, but is there really a point to dragging on that line of discussion? The last quarter of (most) people's lives is usually called a 'later' stage. At least it is in my understanding of English.

Yes, people have been known to live upwards of a hundred years. Yes, you are free to call yourself whatever label you prefer, regardless of your age.

Just pulling your leg!! Emoticons don't work on my Apple PC. :-( The other thing is, I missed the first few posts on the second page ... sorry. In reality, I have a lot of friends with arthritis aged from 20 up, who have never been involved in martial arts. I also have a lot of friends 60 plus, still involved in MAs and they all move well, despite makiwara and padwork for decades. I have no issue with makiwara but I would not be spending a lot of time pounding rocks. I don't believe makiwara training, done properly, increases the risk of arthritis but I would not be so sure about plunging my hands into a bucket of pebbles. That must cause joint compression and in later life (or sooner) that could well lead to deformed joints and arthritis.
Bashing trees is no different to what the Okinawans do when striking the upright pole. In that case it is generally an open hand or forearm strike, rather than a clenched fist.

 

[rlp271]

Haha, nice Kez. Still a great Rocky quote though. About hand conditioning leading to arthritis, I think it depends on what you're doing, how hard, and how rigorously. I'm not sure if Higaonna sensei has arthritis. I wouldn't be super surprised if he did, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he didn't. Hardening of the body is a tradition going back a long way in Okinawan karate, as someone else mentioned in an earlier post. I think they've probably figured a few things out by now.

 

[Tez3]

If you meant it tongue-in-cheek, then please disregard my comments.

I don't think people would go out and bash rocks or trees willy-nilly. That would be rather stupid and probably painful.



You can think of yourself as whatever age you want! I am going on 29... Again!



Fair enough. You don't train in systems that value or follow the practice. I come from a heavy Okinawan Goju-ryu background and this is just something we do. We favor strengthening the body's muscles, joints, and bones to both protect ourselves from blows as well as to deliver damage ourselves. Add good punching technique to a conditioned fist, and the results can be devastating.

As I said it wasn't totally serious, I wasn't making any scientific statements, so yes it was tongue in cheek but you never underetsimate people stupidity. There's plenty who would go out bashing their shins with rolling pins and punching bowls of hot sand just because they saw it on television. People's gullibility is boundless, recently a British actor was attacked by someone angry at the way his character on a soap was behaving, the same programme has a character who's husband is having an affair and the actress playing her, accompanied by her own husband has people taking her aside to warn her of her screen husband's antics, surely these people must know its not real? So, never be sure that people when they read about things or see them on the screens big or small don't believe it's true, real or should be done only under supervision.

 

[dancingalone]

As I said it wasn't totally serious, I wasn't making any scientific statements, so yes it was tongue in cheek but you never underetsimate people stupidity.

<shrugs> Those people don't sound like martial artists to me.

It takes real commitment to condition your hands. Bruising is a regular reality and at times you'll cut your skin and flesh. I'm not worried about the untrained people trying to follow this path. It only takes one session before they'll move onto their next fantasy.

 

[Tez3]

<shrugs> Those people don't sound like martial artists to me.

It takes real commitment to condition your hands. Bruising is a regular reality and at times you'll cut your skin and flesh. I'm not worried about the untrained people trying to follow this path. It only takes one session before they'll move onto their next fantasy.

I've seen someone do a no touch knockout and a lot of senior Dan grades believe it was real so yeah I think there's plenty of martial artists who will believe you can do the things I describe and go on to do it seriously, I'm not talking about wannabes.
My hands are too precious I'm afraid to abuse them that way. I know a great many heavy hitters who don't need to go through that either.

 

[dancingalone]

I've seen someone do a no touch knockout and a lot of senior Dan grades believe it was real so yeah I think there's plenty of martial artists who will believe you can do the things I describe and go on to do it seriously, I'm not talking about wannabes.

?

We were talking about hand conditioning, right? If so, to reiterate, I don't see Average Joe running out to do it himself. It's a fairly esoteric practice and you really have to want to do it to go through the bother.

My hands are too precious I'm afraid to abuse them that way. I know a great many heavy hitters who don't need to go through that either.

Yes, I think we've already established that it's not for everyone. It is an old practice from Tode and have been preserved in Naha style karate. If you are not a Naha person, chances are you won't get it, and that's fine.

 

[Tez3]

?

We were talking about hand conditioning, right? If so, to reiterate, I don't see Average Joe running out to do it himself. It's a fairly esoteric practice and you really have to want to do it to go through the bother.



Yes, I think we've already established that it's not for everyone. It is an old practice from Tode and have been preserved in Naha style karate. If you are not a Naha person, chances are you won't get it, and that's fine.

We have several teenagers who come to MMA and they ask about hand and leg conditioning as in bashing the shins, punching hard objects etc. I also read this all the time on MMA forums, the practice coming from Muay Thai rather than karate though. Yes they are likely to and indeed do practice these things without knowledge or supervision hence my concern on here. I beleive if you look on the Muay Thai section you will find questions like this.

 

[dancingalone]

<another shrug> I make no claims about what teenagers ask about in MMA or muay thai forums. This sideline discussion started when someone posted about Morio Higaonna punching rocks, and I gave some thoughts from the Naha karate perspective, considering this is the karate forum.

But this is getting pedantic. You don't condition your hands nor do you want to. I have in the past and I still do some maintenance conditioning as needed. That's really all that needs to be said at this point.

 

[Cirdan]

?
Yes, I think we've already established that it's not for everyone. It is an old practice from Tode and have been preserved in Naha style karate. If you are not a Naha person, chances are you won't get it, and that's fine.

Indeed it is. Systems like Wado has a lot more focus on avoiding injury trough training and increasing sensitivity rather than potentially deaden nerves. The whole business of hitting/breaking inanimate objects are regarded as a bit silly and time that could be spent on improving technique. Anyway, to each his own.

 

[Tez3]

<another shrug> I make no claims about what teenagers ask about in MMA or muay thai forums. This sideline discussion started when someone posted about Morio Higaonna punching rocks, and I gave some thoughts from the Naha karate perspective, considering this is the karate forum.

But this is getting pedantic. You don't condition your hands nor do you want to. I have in the past and I still do some maintenance conditioning as needed. That's really all that needs to be said at this point.

May well be pendantic and silly but in my country which Martial Talk is freely available and has British posters, readers and lurkers ( I do like that word) has something called 'duty of care' which means I feel honour bound to point out the dangers of something if I feel it's warrented. I've never felt that I could blithely post up something that if even one person followed it and hurt themselves I could rest easy, but that's just my sense of responsibilty as a martial artist and human being.
It's not in the least off subject because the OP is looking to chose a karate style and should have as many facts to hand as possible before embarking on his journey as a karateka.

 

[dancingalone]

Indeed it is. Systems like Wado has a lot more focus on avoiding injury trough training and increasing sensitivity rather than potentially deaden nerves. The whole business of hitting/breaking inanimate objects are regarded as a bit silly and time that could be spent on improving technique. Anyway, to each his own.

We all hit inanimate objects unless you just punch in the air. Some use heavy bags. I prefer makiwara. After a student has acquired good technique on the makiwara he can move onto the more serious conditioning methods.

I think 'silly' is a bit strong, considering you don't study the style. Given the predilections of Naha karate, making the body strong in order to be a weapon makes imminent sense. It's easy enough to pick bits and pieces out of a foreign martial art to argue about from your own outside perspective - heck, I'm guilty of the same sometimes. As with anything, better understanding comes when you review and study all the components which comprise the entire system.

 

[Gruenewald]

Striking a rock sounds like something I would do, haha... However I wouldn't do it unless I knew it were completely safe. I'm pretty protective (perhaps paranoid in some regards?) about long-term detriments to my health. Minus potential injury in martial arts, I suppose, despite me being pretty careful to prevent those as well.

 

[dancingalone]

I feel honour bound to point out the dangers of something if I feel it's warrented.

Well, I believe you can consider your obligation well and fully discharged. Now if you or someone else can point to a medical study discussing the varying effects of hand conditioning, I am all ears. So far all everyone has mentioned are the so-called 'chances'. To repeat, I don't know of any karate-ka that suffer from a debilitating hand problem suffered in direct connection from the practice of hand conditioning. I HAVE heard about boxers with nerve damage and hand pain, but these guys incurred their issues from years of abuse against human targets and the gloves they wear cause them to punch in a sometimes anatomically unsound manner in order to generate as much power as possible in the ring. Very different from the straight thrusts karate-ka employ when conditioning their hands.

 

[Tez3]

Well, I believe you can consider your obligation well and fully discharged. Now if you or someone else can point to a medical study discussing the varying effects of hand conditioning, I am all ears. So far all everyone has mentioned are the so-called 'chances'. To repeat, I don't know of any karate-ka that suffer from a debilitating hand problem suffered in direct connection from the practice of hand conditioning. I HAVE heard about boxers with nerve damage and hand pain, but these guys incurred their issues from years of abuse against human targets and the gloves they wear cause them to punch in a sometimes anatomically unsound manner in order to generate as much power as possible in the ring. Very different from the straight thrusts karate-ka employ when conditioning their hands.

Of course.

 

[Cirdan]

Not my intention to be insulting, merely pointing out there are different philosophies at work here.

As for making the body strong, that is probably part of any art. Again, there are different approaches to how and what kind of strong.

We all hit inanimate objects unless you just punch in the air. Some use heavy bags. I prefer makiwara. After a student has acquired good technique on the makiwara he can move onto the more serious conditioning methods.

I think 'silly' is a bit strong, considering you don't study the style. Given the predilections of Naha karate, making the body strong in order to be a weapon makes imminent sense. It's easy enough to pick bits and pieces out of a foreign martial art to argue about from your own outside perspective - heck, I'm guilty of the same sometimes. As with anything, better understanding comes when you review and study all the components which comprise the entire system.

 

[dancingalone]

Not my intention to be insulting, merely pointing out there are different philosophies at work here.

True.

As for making the body strong, that is probably part of any art. Again, there are different approaches to how and what kind of strong.

Naha karate styles build useful muscle through dynamic tension along with implements like clay jars and stone rods/hammers. The muscle doesn't just make you strong; it's also intended to help you avoid damage when struck.

You generally don't see this type of exercise in Shotokan or Wado, because you'd rather slip a blow than take one in order to give one. Neither answer is incorrect. It depends on style and personal afffinity.

 

[Cirdan]

Naha karate styles build useful muscle through dynamic tension along with implements like clay jars and stone rods/hammers. The muscle doesn't just make you strong; it's also intended to help you avoid damage when struck.

You generally don't see this type of exercise in Shotokan or Wado, because you'd rather slip a blow than take one in order to give one. Neither answer is incorrect. It depends on style and personal afffinity.

True, but Wado stylists also train to take blows when needed. There is not always a clear cut to which style does what. Our club has a pretty strong chinese influence and we practice Sanchin and Tensho, kata traditionally not seen in Wado.