Four Major Styles of Japanese Karate.

[TimoS]

You don't often hear of Shotokan being referred to as Shotokan-ryu!

One of my friends practises Shotakan ryu Kase ha (or was is Kase ha Shotokan ryu). Anyway, that is the only instance I've heard of ryu being used with Shotokan

 

[wadokai_indo]

I think the major reason why Wado-ryu was considered as "Big Four" is because the leaders of Wado (for example Mr. Eriguchi Eiichi and Otsuka sensei himself) were very instrumental in creating the All-Japan Karate Federation (JKF/Zen Nippon Karatedo Renmei), they have very close working relationship. Or so I was told

Ben Haryo

in "1940 Wadoryu Karatejutsu was registered at Butokukai, Kyoto for the demonstration of various Budo, together with Shotokanryu, Shitoryu and Gojuryu. This occasion is regarded as the first official naming of Karate styles."
This is a quote from http://www.hogia.net/karate/karate/history.htm
I think this is where the four come from. Three out off these four styles had Okinawan teachers that introduced the style to mainland Japan, wado-ryu has a Japanese founder.

So "the four" are the first four historically in japan, i.mo.. Kyokushin comes from shotokan and goju-ryu I believe.
Although some karate was formed into a style in Okinawa (goju-ryu comes to mind) other karate was this or that teachers karate (or whatever term used then). I believe I've heard it said/written that Funakoshi never claimed a particular style he said he taught karate. I think much off the organisation into ryu's (schools) is a japanese thing.

Ryushikan: Above linked site and http://www.wadoryu.org.uk/ provide good history on Ohstuka sensei i.m.o.

hope this helps,

 

[hippy]

shotokan translates merely as style of shoto (shoto being funakoshi's pen name when he wrote poetry etc), he never really called it anything himself. which is why it isn't called shotokan-ryu (or kai)

a good name for it would've been
'don't try this unless you like low stances' -ryu

a working title for now admitadly.

no matter what style of karate u do (i'm a wado man myself) everyone should try shotokan, if only to strengthen your own techniques.

 

[marshallbd]

Martin's right, Kyokushin isn't really included as one of the "big four", I believe due to its origins, which came from outside of Japan (Oyama being Korean). I wouldn't really class any of it's offshoots as one of the major styles either. Thats not to say they aren't any good, just that they're not all that widely practised. The big four Japanese karate's as I understand it are,

Wado Ryu
Goju Ryu
Shotokan
Shito Ryu

Whether Kyokushin is practised as widely as some of these, I don't know.

I thought Shorin Ryu was in there somewhere.... :asian:

 

[TimoS]

I thought Shorin Ryu was in there somewhere.... :asian:

But Shorin ryu styles are Okinawan, not Japanese (although when they were formed, Okinawa was very much part of Japan). Many who practise a style that is Okinawan are quick to make the distinction. Since I don't practise Okinawan karate, to me the distinction has never been so clear
:idunno:

 

[Ippon Ken]

But Shorin ryu styles are Okinawan, not Japanese (although when they were formed, Okinawa was very much part of Japan). Many who practise a style that is Okinawan are quick to make the distinction. Since I don't practise Okinawan karate, to me the distinction has never been so clear
:idunno:

Yeah there is definitely a distinction. Whereas the four major "offshoot" Japanese styles are defined as Japanese Shito Ryu, Shotokan, Wado Ryu and Nisei Goju Ryu, the parent Okinawan styles are Ryukyu Goju Ryu and Shorin Ryu. The Japanese styles are amalgamations of these original forms of organized Ryukyuan karate. Other Okinawan styles which have mainly an Okinawan and Chinese influence are Uechi Ryu (or Pangai Noon), Mabuni Kenwa Shito Ryu and Isshin Ryu (Shorin/Goju hybrid). Ryuei Ryu, Jukendo, Ishimine Ryu, Motobu Ryu (Bugeikan) and Ryukyu Kenpo (Shigeru Nakamura) are also very important Okinawan styles.

Out of all of the Japanese styles Kyokushin is definitely the most prominent Japanese "ryu". I think that the "major" designation is outdated and that Kyokushin has more exposure and respect than any of the "major" Japanese styles, even amongst the Okinawan style practitioners.

It's just semantics and BS elitist politics.

 

[marshallbd]

Yeah there is definitely a distinction. Whereas the four major "offshoot" Japanese styles are defined as Japanese Shito Ryu, Shotokan, Wado Ryu and Nisei Goju Ryu, the parent Okinawan styles are Ryukyu Goju Ryu and Shorin Ryu. The Japanese styles are amalgamations of these original forms of organized Ryukyuan karate. Other Okinawan styles which have mainly an Okinawan and Chinese influence are Uechi Ryu (or Pangai Noon), Mabuni Kenwa Shito Ryu and Isshin Ryu (Shorin/Goju hybrid). Ryuei Ryu, Jukendo, Ishimine Ryu, Motobu Ryu (Bugeikan) and Ryukyu Kenpo (Shigeru Nakamura) are also very important Okinawan styles.

Out of all of the Japanese styles Kyokushin is definitely the most prominent Japanese "ryu". I think that the "major" designation is outdated and that Kyokushin has more exposure and respect than any of the "major" Japanese styles, even amongst the Okinawan style practitioners.

It's just semantics and BS elitist politics.

I practise Shotokan and Know that it is one of the big Japanese Styles but I thought Shorin Ryu was too. Thanks for opening my eyes! :asian:

 

[DeLamar.J]

Maybe Yamaguchi's Goju ryu? I think Wado ryu and Kyokushin are more likely possibilities, though.

Cthulhu

Actually its Chojun Miyagi's Goju Ryu.

 

[kroh]

Hello to all.

The instructor at the school i attend also teaches an old martial (late 1800's) that was later restructured. The system is called Uechi Ryu Karate-Do and was later codified sometime in the late 1940's early 50's. It was originally brought over to Okinawa called Pangainoon Kenpo. Although not one of the styles listed in the above posts, it is my understaning that this system is very Prominent in Okinawa.

info can be found here:

www.uechi-ryu.com

www.derderian-academy.com

Thanks for the minute,
WalT

 

[RRouuselot]

Hello to all.

The instructor at the school i attend also teaches an old martial (late 1800's) that was later restructured. The system is called Uechi Ryu Karate-Do and was later codified sometime in the late 1940's early 50's. It was originally brought over to Okinawa called Pangainoon Kenpo. Although not one of the styles listed in the above posts, it is my understaning that this system is very Prominent in Okinawa.

info can be found here:

www.uechi-ryu.com

www.derderian-academy.com

Thanks for the minute,
WalT

Yes, your right it is.

 

[gyaku-zuki queen]

shito-ryu
shotokan
wado-ryu
goju-ryu

i'm pretty sure. the other styles were made from those ones..
i train Renshikan. it's a combination of shito/chito ryu.
most other styles are decendants of those ones and combinations of them.

 

[arnisador]

No kyokushi is very much part of the "Main 4". It is by itself the largest "style" of Karate on Mainland Japan.

Is this so? Not Shotokan?

 

[searcher]

It is correct that Shotokan, Gojukai, Shito-ryu, and Wado-ryu are counted as the "Big 4" Japanese karate styles.

It is really strange that Wado-ryu is counted as a "Big 4", since its founder studied Shotokan under Funakoshi. I suppose this could also be said a little bit of Shito-ryu as well, since Mabuni studied and taught with Funakoshi for a short while. Though the influence was quite small on the structure od Shito-ryu.

Earlier on in this post aquestion was asked if there was a difference between Okinawan Goju and Japanese Goju. The two differences I have seen is the depth of the stances and the hard/soft relationship. The Japanese have longer deeper stances and are harder i their application ie. less soft style techniques.

 

[jkdhit]

isn't shotokan basically okinawan-te with a a little bit of judo to make it "japanese"?

 

[searcher]

isn't shotokan basically okinawan-te with a a little bit of judo to make it "japanese"?

Absolutely not!

 

[TonyU]

Absolutely not!

I concur.

 

[arnisador]

No, Judo wasn't added to Shotokan. Wado-ryu has some jujutsu, but that's about it.

Yes, Shotokan is a modified version of Okinawan (i.e., original) karate. Some say it was weakened, others say it was improved.

 

[searcher]

Some say it was weakened, others say it was improved.

Just like throwing gas at a camp fire.

 

[TonyU]

No, Judo wasn't added to Shotokan. Wado-ryu has some jujutsu, but that's about it.

Yes, Shotokan is a modified version of Okinawan (i.e., original) karate. Some say it was weakened, others say it was improved.

I consider Shotokan a watered down version of Shorin Ryu, but that's just my opinion.

 

[arnisador]

To be frank, I do agree that Shotokan does not represent an improvement. I much prefer the Okinawan systems.