Which knuckles?

[Paul-M]

My Shaolin Kung Fu instructor tells me to punch with the front two knuckles, as do pretty much everyone I speak to. But Bruce Lee's books, and a boxing book I have by Doug Werner both tell me to punch with the last three knuckles.

Are both ways effective? Which knuckles do you strike with ?

 

[punisher73]

My Shaolin Kung Fu instructor tells me to punch with the front two knuckles, as do pretty much everyone I speak to. But Bruce Lee's books, and a boxing book I have by Doug Werner both tell me to punch with the last three knuckles.

Are both ways effective? Which knuckles do you strike with ?

A boxer's fracture is what happens when you hit a hard surface with the bottom three knuckles. You will find boxer's that use the top two, and the bottom three, and some that say you should emphasize your middle knuckle.

Also, remember that boxing punches are trained with gloves on so you don't have to worry as much about breaking your hand as you do bare knuckle. I prefer the vertical fist using the large two knuckles.

 

[arnisador]

Hitting with the bottom knuckles is primarily a Wing Chun kung fu practice and is associated with their vertical fist punch. In general, go with the big two knuckles for better and safer impact (though every punch that lands has the potential to bust a hand).

 

[DavidCC]

It depends on which type of gloves they use in your sport. Oh, no gloves, not a sport? then use the ones that won't break, the ones you can line up with your forearm

 

[Zero]

Way back when I did wing chun, it was as said above, the bottom 3 knuckles.

All my karate training has focused on bare knuckle application using the larger top two (or for a discrete, bullet effect, just the top) knuckles, with a verticle strike and straight line down the forearm. I have been told by those I put faith in that this type of strike is one of the best for reducing chances of broken wrist or knuckles from a bare fisted punch and it feels good for me.

My boxing training (with gloves of course) has different focuses depending on the target and way the target is displayed/accessible. For example, if with a right hook the head of the opponent is not covered up, or not defended well, then I apply a vertical fist blow (base/bottom of hand, ie pinkie at bottom, to floor) - and if the head is better covered, then to get through the defence/smaller opening I turn to a horizontal strike (palm facing down) to temple area etc. With both strikes I still keep the focus on the large two knuckles but actually am fully contacting with all 3 larger knuckles through the gloves.

Uppercuts in gloves are interesting as sometimes, depending on the angle and how close you are in, it can be a hit from either the inside (smaller) or outside knuckles.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I prefer using the first two knuckles (having fractured my hand in a boxers break a few times early in life).
If I use the bottom three knuckles it is only after making initial contact with the first two then rotating my fist, as I have found this makes a lasting impression when done correctly

 

[wade]

First two. End of story. You get in a "real" fight and break your little baby fingers and the fight is over. Whether you wear gloves or not, always use the first two kunckles.

 

[Whitebelt]

Do what Sifu Pace says Paul.

Plus, I'm coming back after the GCSEs!

 

[Em MacIntosh]

The first two knuckles tend to be bigger and more able to transfer impact down the forearm to the shoulder and body. When you strike with force you'll probably make contact with all five but I recommend that you concentrate on the first two when training. I also don't remember reading anywhere that Bruce favored the bottom three over the top two. I do find a lot of his strikes work well as a "ginger fist" (using the palm-side while a fist is clenched with the thumb moved out of the way)

 

[zDom]

Just look at an X-ray of the metacarpals (hand bones). Google an image or two. The first two are SIGNIFICANTLY larger than the other two.

Based on that I will ALWAYS use the large two and NEVER use the smaller two.

 

[Touch Of Death]

My Shaolin Kung Fu instructor tells me to punch with the front two knuckles, as do pretty much everyone I speak to. But Bruce Lee's books, and a boxing book I have by Doug Werner both tell me to punch with the last three knuckles.

Are both ways effective? Which knuckles do you strike with ?

Both methods serve a differing purpose.
Sean

 

[Touch Of Death]

Just look at an X-ray of the metacarpals (hand bones). Google an image or two. The first two are SIGNIFICANTLY larger than the other two.

Based on that I will ALWAYS use the large two and NEVER use the smaller two.

Never say never. Again the perpose of the strike is different.
sean

 

[Touch Of Death]

First two. End of story. You get in a "real" fight and break your little baby fingers and the fight is over. Whether you wear gloves or not, always use the first two kunckles.

If you are hitting softer targets with a lesser force, why always?
sean

 

[DavidCC]

The first two have significantly better alignment with the bones of the arm.

 

[Tangellione]

I always hit with the 2 larger knuckles, so they take the most pressure. The other knuckles however can still make contact depending on how the blow connected.

Last week I was training and during an exercise I accidentally hit my partner with the smaller knuckles. It nearly split my hand open. Well, not really but I can tell you it did not feel too good either. You might be able to deliver quick (and not so strong) punches with the smaller knuckles but when you're using heavy punches I'd say use the larger ones.

 

[geezer]

I prefer using the first two knuckles (having fractured my hand in a boxers break a few times early in life).
If I use the bottom three knuckles it is only after making initial contact with the first two then rotating my fist, as I have found this makes a lasting impression when done correctly

Interesting obsrvation Tshadowchaser. It's true that in Wing Tsun/Chun the classic verticle fist punch uses the bottom three knuckles, and the way the punch is thrown, these knuckles do align solidly with the forearm. Also by snapping the fist upward on contact, as you noted, you can indeed "make a lasting impression". A couple of caveats are in order though. 1. This is not an effective or safe structure for a horizontal fist punch as in boxing or karate. 2. Wing Chunners must train this punch with thousands of reps over a long period of time against a firm wall-bag to gradually strengthen the bones and tendons involved. 3. Even in Wing Tsun/Chun it is not the only punch used and knuckle alignment depends on the punch and target. And, keep in mind, if you are hitting something really hard without gloves, there's always a palm strike...or better yet pick up a stick! --See you over on FMA Talk.

 

[zDom]

Aye, I realize that for those who TRAIN those bottom two knuckles, that particular punch may be viable.

But I don't, so for me it's not, hence for me: ALWAYS the big two If I EVER make contact with the other two, it will be an accident

I'm banking that I won't ever "need" that other tool (bottom three knuckles punch), so I hope I'm right about not needing it.

Not saying it is a worthless tool, for those who have taken the time to develop it. Just saying its not in my box; my path didn't go that way.

 

[naneek]

valid point zdom, if you have not conditioned yourself for that kind of punch better to stick to what you know and have conditioned yourself for, geezer made a good point saying that to use the bottom knuckles the structure and delivery of the strike must be right a la wing chuns verticle punch

 

[lklawson]

Hitting with the bottom knuckles is primarily a Wing Chun kung fu practice and is associated with their vertical fist punch. In general, go with the big two knuckles for better and safer impact (though every punch that lands has the potential to bust a hand).

"Pistol Grip" punching with the bottom three knuckles is also the standard for old style bare knuckle pugilism (see examples at: http://stores.lulu.com/lawson ).

There's been speculation for years now that WC adopted/coopted the technique from western sailors. It's an entertaining speculation but 100% unverifiable and not good for much other than irritating my WC friends.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

I have been told by those I put faith in that this type of strike is one of the best for reducing chances of broken wrist or knuckles from a bare fisted punch

Depends on wrist orientation. I.E., horizontal or pistol grip.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk