Which kind of strenght training it's better for martial arts?

[JR 137]

I think many people have an issue with strengh training as it is in many ways contrary to the philosophy of tma, that you can use techneque to generate power to over come a stronger oppoinent and that then attracts people who have a strength deficience is the first place.

Not doing strength training because their technique is what enables them to hit harder is more of an excuse than anything else.

I can hit harder than many people who can bench press, squat, etc. twice what I can. And just because someone can hit significantly harder doesn't mean they'll be able to actually hit their opponent.

It's no secret that technique is critical to hitting hard. It's no secret that you actually have to be able to hit your target and minimize being hit. These two things make or break a MAists effectiveness. However, being stronger and faster than you previously were universally enhances your ability to hit harder. Unfortunately, many people have lied to themselves so many times that they've almost convinced themselves that strength is irrelevant. And they've furthered the lie by saying strength training will make them too big, limit their flexibility too much, and make them slower. It's absolute nonsense. Spend time teaching a power lifter how to punch correctly, and they'll punch with far more power and hit far harder than just about anyone who doesn't strength train.

Look at pro fighters. If strength wasn't important, they wouldn't waste their time training it; they'd be far better off replacing that time with additionally practicing their technique.

However, adding strength is performance ENHANCING, not performance GIVING. All the steroids in the world wouldn't make me hit a home run against a decent baseball pitcher, nor would they make me capable of knocking Mike Tyson out in a boxing match. I'd have to practice pretty intently for either to be a remote possibility.

 

[jobo]

Not doing strength training because their technique is what enables them to hit harder is more of an excuse than anything else.

I can hit harder than many people who can bench press, squat, etc. twice what I can. And just because someone can hit significantly harder doesn't mean they'll be able to actually hit their opponent.

It's no secret that technique is critical to hitting hard. It's no secret that you actually have to be able to hit your target and minimize being hit. These two things make or break a MAists effectiveness. However, being stronger and faster than you previously were universally enhances your ability to hit harder. Unfortunately, many people have lied to themselves so many times that they've almost convinced themselves that strength is irrelevant. And they've furthered the lie by saying strength training will make them too big, limit their flexibility too much, and make them slower. It's absolute nonsense. Spend time teaching a power lifter how to punch correctly, and they'll punch with far more power and hit far harder than just about anyone who doesn't strength train.

Look at pro fighters. If strength wasn't important, they wouldn't waste their time training it; they'd be far better off replacing that time with additionally practicing their technique.

However, adding strength is performance ENHANCING, not performance GIVING. All the steroids in the world wouldn't make me hit a home run against a decent baseball pitcher, nor would they make me capable of knocking Mike Tyson out in a boxing match. I'd have to practice pretty intently for either to be a remote possibility.

I don't think we are far off being in agreement, we just see it phylosopicaly different ly, which is probably our life experience. I see having strengh abd fitness as the priority for defending ones self, with MA being an enhancement', to generate more power through techneque. You see strengh as an enhancement of your MA

fitness strengh, co ordination come as a package as I see it. those will get you a long way with out MAtraining. Whilst ma training with out a good helping of the three is of very limited use

 

[Juany118]

pulling, pushing, squats and abbs.

I would only change "abs" to "core" in general but pretty much this.

However I would also say don't forget flexibility exercises at the expense of getting more cut/muscles.

 

[jobo]

I would only change "abs" to "core" in general but pretty much this.

However I would also say don't forget flexibility exercises at the expense of getting more cut/muscles.

was it you I asked above, what muscles don't get worked in general exercise that therefore require special core training

 

[Zombocalypse]

It is my firm opinion that when it comes to strength training for ANY sport, including martial arts, classic barbell training like powerlifting or Olympic-style lifting are the most superior on so many levels. You gain overall body-strength and the vast majority of people can do it. Increasing your squat from 300 pounds to 500 pounds (or something similar) will greatly and surely improve your overall striking and grappling power. Of course, technique is important, but strength is a foundation of both speed and endurance.

There are many effective barbell training programs out there. The key is to choose the one that's right for you and your goals. For most people, I will recommend Mark Rippetoe's classic Texas Method, but it's not the only way.

You can also create your own training program, provided that you are educated with basic training principles such as Progressive Overload and SAID (Specific Adaptations to Imposed Demands).

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Many good MA equipment training can be seen in this clip.

 

[Zombocalypse]

Many good MA equipment training can be seen in this clip.

Those guys lifting those bricks have great bodies. lol

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Those guys lifting those bricks have great bodies. lol

If you train "functional strength" instead of "muscle group isolation", you will build swimmer type of body shape.

 

[thanson02]

If you train "functional strength" instead of "muscle group isolation", you will build swimmer type of body shape.

Have any good examples of what that looks like?

 

[jobo]

Have any good examples of what that looks like?

A bit like this i guess, its certainly the look I'm going for

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Have any good examples of what that looks like?

Long slim muscle, no bulky muscle, no fat.

Less reps and more weight vs. more reps and less weight will build up different body shapes. If you used to lift X lb for N reps. But if you just lift X-10 lb with 2N reps, you will build the swimmer type of muscle.

 

[Zombocalypse]

Long slim muscle, no bulky muscle, no fat.

Less reps and more weight vs. more reps and less weight will build up different body shapes. If you used to lift X lb for N reps. But if you just lift X-10 lb with 2N reps, you will build the swimmer type of muscle.

This is misleading.

Physique development is much much more complex than that. We have issues like... individuality: Some people can get big even with light weights.

We got diet: Muscle is built in the kitchen. Training won't produce anything unless your diet is spot on.

We got program efficacy: Some training programs designed out there are total ****, while others are proven effective time and time again.

We got genetics. Some people just naturally respond better to weight training because that's the way they were born. Some people, although respond poorly to training, are naturally muscular from the get go. And then there are even other varieties of this.

We got muscular symmetry: The key here is balance. You can't build a physique with two exercises. You need to address everything.

We got the mental aspect of the whole thing: Motivation, determination, willpower, and perseverance.

We got bone structure: Some people will always be small no matter how much muscle they put on their frames because their natural bone frame is small.

We got specificity of training: Specific training methods will produce specific results. There's training for hypertrophy, there's training for strength, there's training for endurance.

And a thousand other things to keep in mind.



The Great Endeavour known as Weight Training is as equally complex as Kung Fu or Karate.

 

[jobo]

This is misleading.

Physique development is much much more complex than that. We have issues like... individuality: Some people can get big even with light weights.

We got diet: Muscle is built in the kitchen. Training won't produce anything unless your diet is spot on.

We got program efficacy: Some training programs designed out there are total ****, while others are proven effective time and time again.

We got genetics. Some people just naturally respond better to weight training because that's the way they were born. Some people, although respond poorly to training, are naturally muscular from the get go. And then there are even other varieties of this.

We got muscular symmetry: The key here is balance. You can't build a physique with two exercises. You need to address everything.

We got the mental aspect of the whole thing: Motivation, determination, willpower, and perseverance.

We got bone structure: Some people will always be small no matter how much muscle they put on their frames because their natural bone frame is small.

We got specificity of training: Specific training methods will produce specific results. There's training for hypertrophy, there's training for strength, there's training for endurance.

And a thousand other things to keep in mind.



The Great Endeavour known as Weight Training is as equally complex as Kung Fu or Karate.

I would only adapt that slightly and say that the whole issue of performance training is highly complex to the point its almost a black art.
there is an on going debate on here between the tradionalist that think all you need is karate style exercises horse stance a plank abd few push ups, etal and a few that thing the world has moved on and far greater performance can be achieved stealing from other sports. There is even a small but vocal anti strengh fitness lobby. That think being stronger than your oppoinent to be against the spirit of MAs and shouldn't be encouraged and is anyway completely optional as they have a killer wrist lock etc.
suggesting that a fit male should at the very least be able to dead lift , bench press or over head press his own body weight makes them quite cross

 

[hoshin1600]

I think many people have an issue with strengh training as it is in many ways contrary to the philosophy of tma,

when applying this sentence to traditional karate, i think many people misunderstand karate. all of the old school training involved a type of weight training and resistance. the concept was, karate training included resistance training. i am under the impression that the "karate will over come stronger opponents" and doesnt need strength comes more from Judo ads in the US and a complete misunderstanding by the American people in the 50"s and 60"s. perhaps the overweight out of shape guy posing as a 11th degree black belt needed that image to help fill the dojo and make excuses for his twinky and ice cream habit.
(not saying i dont have an ice cream habit)

 

[jobo]

when applying this sentence to traditional karate, i think many people misunderstand karate. all of the old school training involved a type of weight training and resistance. the concept was, karate training included resistance training. i am under the impression that the "karate will over come stronger opponents" and doesnt need strength comes more from Judo ads in the US and a complete misunderstanding by the American people in the 50"s and 60"s. perhaps the overweight out of shape guy posing as a 11th degree black belt needed that image to help fill the dojo and make excuses for his twinky and ice cream habit.
(not saying i dont have an ice cream habit)

not disagreeing with this in the slightest, but it sets me of on another point of view, that being that the,T in tma, doesn't relate to the traditions of Japan or china, but to the traditions of the usa or the west in general.

MA as first practised will have used the best fitness methods' known at the time, as sports science has moved on its only reasonable to incorporate that in to the training. But there is a reluctance to train anyway that wasn't common in the early 1900s. That's wasn't the best training for karate, it was just the best training known at that time.

then to your second point,tradition has been pushed to a point that is almost anti fitness, To make it desirable set against the newer ma, its runs with a sub title that its a way for fat weak or otherwise unfit people to fight and it can't then push fat weak or other wise unfit people to become greatly fitter as that the reason they joined. If they insist that they run a mile in say 8 mins then they will leave and do ten pin bowling instead.

there fore the T in tma is a tradition of sub par fitness, which is very far removed from the traditions of the east .

they are becoming the planet fitness of MA