complete Art for Self Defense and what are the main core to that particular Art?
Terry
Terry
Which Art is the most
- Thread starter terryl965
- Start date
ginshun
2nd Black Belt
Your never going to get a decent consensus to this question.
Everybody is going to claim that there own art is the most comprehensive for self defense.
Kung Fu guys will say Kung fu, Kenpo guys will say Kenpo, Jujutsu guys will say jujutsu, taijutsu guys will say taijutsu, JKD guys will say JKD etc, etc...
Even if people don't claim there own, everybody is never going to agree on which is best, and really, no one art is going to be the best for everybody.
Everybody is going to claim that there own art is the most comprehensive for self defense.
Kung Fu guys will say Kung fu, Kenpo guys will say Kenpo, Jujutsu guys will say jujutsu, taijutsu guys will say taijutsu, JKD guys will say JKD etc, etc...
Even if people don't claim there own, everybody is never going to agree on which is best, and really, no one art is going to be the best for everybody.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #3
ginshun said:
I understand that but still we all know certain Arts bring certain elements to the table, the main objective is to see why they believe it is and what core training do they do do to get there?
Terry
Phadrus00
Blue Belt
Terry,
It's an interesting question!
When I think about self-defence in it's purest form I think about being able to apply effective, reliable strikes in a variety of situations and ranges and that can be performed under duress. The techniques need to bea ble to create an opportunity for the defender to escape not to duke it out with the attacker. It's is an additional bonus if those techniques can be performed by a variety of body types with similar results.
To be honest I have yet to see any one Art that fits all that manifest. When I teach self-defence classes (typically to women but I have also done co-ed classes as well) I use a blend of several arts. I think that you need to cover all the ranges to really equip anyone with a basic self-defence toolkit and I have yet to see any one art that can really do all that excellently in all ranges. I typically draw from the following arts:
1/ Muay Thai - The Elbows and Knees in particular for striking as they are relatively easy to train and can be used effectively even by a beginner with minal damage to themselves. Training how to punch takes to long and is risky. Training how to knee is simple and effective.
2/ Silat/Dumog - I select a number of simple and effective takedowns from these arts. They have some wonderfully great stuff like stepping in the opponents foot and pushing them over, or diving and capturing the leg and shoudering the groin. You can teach these fairly easy and they don't require great strength.
3/ Arnis/Escrima - I cover a few very basic defences. Basically controlling the weapons hand, not exposing vital areas, and impromptu weapons like belts, shoes, shirts. I don't teach any counter-attacks or disarms but rather entrances into take-downs to create an opportunity to escape. Depending on how much time you had to teach you could certainly add in more information here but I am alwys nervous about giving people false confidence about dealing with weapons.
4/ BJJ/jui-jitsu - basics of being on the ground, why the guard is good and how to escape the mount. Basic wrist-lock escapes, a straight arm-bar (so they can hurt their husband that evening! *grin*), a couple os pressure points. I usually cover a few "oh crap" positions (knife to the throat, choke being applied from behind, etc.) but I don't think those actually get absorbed very well by most.
Add in a lot of agression and awareness training as well and let them hit stuff, hard!
Rob
It's an interesting question!
When I think about self-defence in it's purest form I think about being able to apply effective, reliable strikes in a variety of situations and ranges and that can be performed under duress. The techniques need to bea ble to create an opportunity for the defender to escape not to duke it out with the attacker. It's is an additional bonus if those techniques can be performed by a variety of body types with similar results.
To be honest I have yet to see any one Art that fits all that manifest. When I teach self-defence classes (typically to women but I have also done co-ed classes as well) I use a blend of several arts. I think that you need to cover all the ranges to really equip anyone with a basic self-defence toolkit and I have yet to see any one art that can really do all that excellently in all ranges. I typically draw from the following arts:
1/ Muay Thai - The Elbows and Knees in particular for striking as they are relatively easy to train and can be used effectively even by a beginner with minal damage to themselves. Training how to punch takes to long and is risky. Training how to knee is simple and effective.
2/ Silat/Dumog - I select a number of simple and effective takedowns from these arts. They have some wonderfully great stuff like stepping in the opponents foot and pushing them over, or diving and capturing the leg and shoudering the groin. You can teach these fairly easy and they don't require great strength.
3/ Arnis/Escrima - I cover a few very basic defences. Basically controlling the weapons hand, not exposing vital areas, and impromptu weapons like belts, shoes, shirts. I don't teach any counter-attacks or disarms but rather entrances into take-downs to create an opportunity to escape. Depending on how much time you had to teach you could certainly add in more information here but I am alwys nervous about giving people false confidence about dealing with weapons.
4/ BJJ/jui-jitsu - basics of being on the ground, why the guard is good and how to escape the mount. Basic wrist-lock escapes, a straight arm-bar (so they can hurt their husband that evening! *grin*), a couple os pressure points. I usually cover a few "oh crap" positions (knife to the throat, choke being applied from behind, etc.) but I don't think those actually get absorbed very well by most.
Add in a lot of agression and awareness training as well and let them hit stuff, hard!
Rob
Depends on what you fnd yourself defending against 
Neat question,
However I believe the question should be answered in the defense move set. One must look at versatility and practicality. I am going to go with hapkido. Yeah, I am guilty of studying it and Tae Kwon Do. However, I hold my brown 2nd in Judo and have won many medals in greco and freestyle wrestling, while serving in the U.S. Marine Corps.
The reason why I say hapkido is becase there are 25 wrist and clothes techniques. 25 modified techniqes, 10 cane, and 10 one armed throws in the ciriculum. The wrist and clothes techniques have to be accomplished on both sides (Right and left). I have scratched the surface as to the ciriculum as to uniqueness to the art as I am studying it.
An argument I hear often is, "Who in the world is going to grab your wrist or clothes?" The answer is, wrist and clothing grabs are used for training, you must look past it and see the whole package as to the application of the technique. This is true in any art. For instance, in conflict you would not always use a side kick or round kick. Sometimes it is more appropriate to use a front upraising or twist kick.
However I believe the question should be answered in the defense move set. One must look at versatility and practicality. I am going to go with hapkido. Yeah, I am guilty of studying it and Tae Kwon Do. However, I hold my brown 2nd in Judo and have won many medals in greco and freestyle wrestling, while serving in the U.S. Marine Corps.
The reason why I say hapkido is becase there are 25 wrist and clothes techniques. 25 modified techniqes, 10 cane, and 10 one armed throws in the ciriculum. The wrist and clothes techniques have to be accomplished on both sides (Right and left). I have scratched the surface as to the ciriculum as to uniqueness to the art as I am studying it.
An argument I hear often is, "Who in the world is going to grab your wrist or clothes?" The answer is, wrist and clothing grabs are used for training, you must look past it and see the whole package as to the application of the technique. This is true in any art. For instance, in conflict you would not always use a side kick or round kick. Sometimes it is more appropriate to use a front upraising or twist kick.
we seem to have lft out Aikido and a few others also.
This question has many answeres sepending on ones point of view. I would also include hand gun useage but I know that was not included inthe original meaning of the question.
I am not sure a postive answere can be give in this question as many arts hav many SD tchniques in them and it really depends on the instructor and the student. For poor defence Aikido and judo may be at the top of the list along with track (which is not a martial art). If you want to inclued attacks after the first dfensive move then the door opens wide for most arts
This question has many answeres sepending on ones point of view. I would also include hand gun useage but I know that was not included inthe original meaning of the question.
I am not sure a postive answere can be give in this question as many arts hav many SD tchniques in them and it really depends on the instructor and the student. For poor defence Aikido and judo may be at the top of the list along with track (which is not a martial art). If you want to inclued attacks after the first dfensive move then the door opens wide for most arts
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Maybe the question could be reworded: Why do you believe that the art you study is effective for self defense? Or, Why do you believe that a particular art [enter your choice here] is good for self defense?
This way we get away from comparing one art to another, and rather look at a single art on its own merits.
This way we get away from comparing one art to another, and rather look at a single art on its own merits.
Hey now mister tshadowchaser!tshadowchaser said:
Come on over to my Aikido dojo, throw a few punches and we'll just see what we'll see, ha! Just jokin wid ya... Or maybe NOT! Come on over and find out, LOL
Seriously, to answer mister Flying Crane's paraphrased question...
Folk equate self defense strategy with strong attack. However this is not always smart when (and there will be a WHEN) your attacker is bigger and stronger than you are. In my Aikido I do not meet forceable action with equal and opposite reaction through block and counter but rather use attacker's impulse momentum to help them find the floor or the wall or their pal or whatever.
At the same time with my Aikido, nobody gets dead. And nobody is keen to follow anybody home or think of getting something done afterwards.
Ok so I've used the term MY Aikido simply because Aikido - like each and EVERY art - is what the practitioner wants it to be. I've said somewhere else that if I wanted to tear someone's arm offjust to see what bones were in there, then I'd train my Aikido with that intention. I don't though. I am happy for everybody to WALK AWAY. Thru this, there is less of a chance of post-fight escalation. This is not a HK kung fu flick where the bad guy runs off, in London particularly it seems that everybody "knows" somebody who can "get something done" so I'd rather put someone down so they can get up and walk off rather than seeing what bones really are inside their shoulder and have them hang around outside my house later on.
Preaching? Me? OK, everyone stand for the closing hymn, LOL.
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
To say this art is better than this art I have to quote my teacher Bruce Lee(you say karate or judo ect is better-thats like saying the box I fight in is better then your box-None show scientific motion-simplistic applications-non telegraphic motion-or self exploring,all look like the founders who started with a guess & then try in application & then it became a system to a religon to a law.All must do it exact or youdont represent that art.A bed of roses is a bed of rose but,add daisys-ect nolanger is it a bed of roses but a flower bed.To be an art example y and the art the other is example x you must do all according to that art to represent it but to add x & still call it y is not the art but a cross.Hence Jeet kune do lets you take a move or technique from an art & deploy it if it is Scientificly- non tele graphic motion that is simplisticly deployed & yet lets you utilise its motion to your body structor & not looking like a bunch of robots insynche doing punchs & kicks for an hour.It realy lets you be combative.DojoSai
Stop!.. Ask yourself how you wanna fight based on your attributes and possible advantages.
1. If your a big guy. grappling or a grappling art may be an option.
2. If you are a fast long legged type and prefer to keep your opponent at bay then perhaps TKD.
3. If you want to trade punches then boxing or Muay thai might be your gig.
4. If you want to fight in what-ever arena your opponent is weakest then Kenpo is your best bet!
Sean
1. If your a big guy. grappling or a grappling art may be an option.
2. If you are a fast long legged type and prefer to keep your opponent at bay then perhaps TKD.
3. If you want to trade punches then boxing or Muay thai might be your gig.
4. If you want to fight in what-ever arena your opponent is weakest then Kenpo is your best bet!
Sean
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Touch Of Death said:
Not sure I understand what you mean by this one. Please clarify. thx.
The Kenpo I train in makes you learn all ranges and also teaches methods of moving from one to the next without violating principles. Because of your willingness to shift dimensional stages of action, you can effect you opponents timing by playing with his range strength; this would exploit any lack of skill to your advantage.Flying Crane said:
Sean
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Touch Of Death said:
gotcha.
jenna,
I ment to say pure not poor lol my bad i fully respet Aikido and judo
sorry folks i sometimes hit the sen button befor i read what i have typed
I ment to say pure not poor lol my bad i fully respet Aikido and judo
sorry folks i sometimes hit the sen button befor i read what i have typed
Robert Lee
Brown Belt
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The best art it is so easy to say which art that is And it is ? really it is the art or blend of arts that best meets and produces a useable function to you for both performance And aspects of delivery. The person Is the only representive of any art. And we all know in every art. Some can do it some can not. In the end that art has no name because you are that art the one performing it. It is not performing you. Just a guide for the path you take.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #19
Old Fat Kenpoka thanks for the negative rep. for my question, here you go sir, I know what is best for me. I wanted input from others on this board and there reasoning behind it. Next time why don't you post a comment and then negitive rep. somebody oh yea that would mean to have to have an answer sorry.
Terry
PS to the other mods. I'm sorry as I post this and I relize I will get in trouble oh well.
Terry
PS to the other mods. I'm sorry as I post this and I relize I will get in trouble oh well.
terryl965 said:
I'd have to say that it would ultimately come down to what the person was specifically looking for. Ideally, I'd have to say that the most complete art would be the one that included all ranges of fighting as well as weapons.
Mike
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