Where does combat judo fit in?

[Jared Traveler]

"Combat" and "non-sport" application of Judo has always been a part of the art. You can see this very clearly in Harrison's 1912 The Fighting Spirit of Japan where he documents the extracurricular events of the Judoka in the club he attended. He claims that the Sensei were OK with it because he got paid to set the bones they broke on the weekend.

Straight up, unmodified, Judo was also part of the basic training for British and American soldiers during WWI (there is film) and this continued unabated through WWII and continued to be taught as such by people such as Carl Cestari.

Nevertheless, for various social and political reasons, during WWII or thereabouts people started adding "Combat" in front of the term "Judo." Famously, this included Cosneck's American Combat Judo, a combatives manual, which combined Judo, wrestling, and Savate.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

The irony of this, because to the Japanese "jitsu" ment combat in the context of martial arts. So you intentionally removed the word combat, replaced it with "do" then added it on the front end in English.

I would be like saying, combat training, but not for warriors. Because the "do" concept was a rejection of the combat mindset, lifestyle and focus.

 

[Jared Traveler]

As Kirk has mentioned, Combat Judo is a catch all phrase, often associated with WWII Combatives. Bernard Cosneck wrote American Combat Judo, Robert Carlin wrote Combat Judo. I know a ma who was trained in the Phillipines, part of what he was taught was called Combat Judo.

Judo with a focus on combat, is extremely effective. Because judo is a much improved version of old school jujitsu. However any historical version of judo that focuses on combat, as far as I can tell, is a direct deviating from the founders Intent. The founders Intent being to shift jujitsus focus away from a combat focus, hints the name judo.

With that said, I personally have always practiced judo with a jujitsu focus.

 

[lklawson]

The irony of this, because to the Japanese "jitsu" ment combat in the context of martial arts. So you intentionally removed the word combat, replaced it with "do" then added it on the front end in English.

I would be like saying, combat training, but not for warriors. Because the "do" concept was a rejection of the combat mindset, lifestyle and focus.

It's way more complex than that. But Chris and Frank are probably better at explaining it then I would be.

 

[lklawson]

Judo with a focus on combat, is extremely effective. Because judo is a much improved version of old school jujitsu. However any historical version of judo that focuses on combat, as far as I can tell, is a direct deviating from the founders Intent. The founders Intent being to shift jujitsus focus away from a combat focus, hints the name judo.

With that said, I personally have always practiced judo with a jujitsu focus.

Not exactly. There's a lot more to the story than that and Kano didn't intend to remove all fighting application from his art. He wanted a lot more out of it than a binary decision between fighting or sport.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Not exactly. There's a lot more to the story than that and Kano didn't intend to remove all fighting application from his art. He wanted a lot more out of it than a binary decision between fighting or sport.

I completely agree that his original intent was not sport.

 

[Jared Traveler]

It's way more complex than that. But Chris and Frank are probably better at explaining it then I would be.

I'm always up for learning more on the subject.

 

[lklawson]

I'm always up for learning more on the subject.

@Chris Parker , @frank raud , care to expound on the difference between Jutsu and Do as applied to Japanese martial arts and how it's more complex than merely "combat" vs. "sport?"

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Jared Traveler]

@Chris Parker , @frank raud , care to expound on the difference between Jutsu and Do as applied to Japanese martial arts and how it's more complex than merely "combat" vs. "sport?"

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Iklawson, to be clear I certainly don't think Kano's diversion away from a military focus, was for the purpose of creating a sport. I'm I'm agreement on that.