Where does combat judo fit in?

[Holmejr]

We teach it as part of Eskrido de Alcuizar. I understand, although I might be wrong, that it was created more or less due to the needs of modern military hand to hand combat needs. For those that know Judo tradition/origins, was the combat side ever a part of the system. Is it valid separate MA apart from traditional Judo? Is it respected or an unspoken step child?

 

[drop bear]

Does anyone any good teach it?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

This is one of the military/police MA system that integrate the striking art and the wrestling art. Combat Judo may take similar approach.

 

[isshinryuronin]

This is one of the military/police MA system that integrate the striking art and the wrestling art. Combat Judo may take similar approach.

Exciting video. Looked like a combo of karate (kicks and takedowns), qin-na (joint locks) and judo (throws). If you look closely at the knife defense, the attacker got slashed with his own knife during several of the maneuvers. The defender had very crisp and clean technique. Great stuff.

 

[Alan0354]

This is one of the military/police MA system that integrate the striking art and the wrestling art. Combat Judo may take similar approach.

I like a few of the moves in the video. This is a lot more than Judo.

One thing I saw in UFC just yesterday that is alarming and I actually afraid that would happen. The guy tried to do a hip throw, that is grabbing the opponent's body, turn and try to swing the opponent over the hip. When he tried to do that, the opponent side step and totally gone behind his back and took him down.

That's what I am afraid, the nice looking judo moves that involves turning the body to throw can be dangerous if the opponent know how to defend.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The guy tried to do a hip throw, ... the nice looking judo moves that involves turning the body to throw can be dangerous if the opponent know how to defend.

This is one of my favor body turning counters. Your opponent spins. You spin with him.



During the mirror stance that you have right side forward and your opponent has left side forward, you can enter without turning your body.

 

[Holmejr]

Does anyone any good teach it?

Yes, but you have not heard of them…

 

[Alan0354]

This is one of my favor body turning counters. Your opponent spins. You spin with him.



During the mirror stance that you have right side forward and your opponent has left side forward, you can enter without turning your body.

Yeh, that's better. Don't turn one's back.

I did not record that fight, but it's similar like the first one you show here. Not as clean of cause, they both went to the ground. That would be BAD!!!!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Don't turn one's back.

When you turn your body into your opponent, your opponent's free arm that can wrap around your waist can give you a lot of trouble.



This is the beauty of the underhook. When you use underhook, your opponent doesn't have that free arm to wrap around your waist, your opponent can't spin with you, you will be safe.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

For those that know Judo tradition/origins, was the combat side ever a part of the system. Is it valid separate MA apart from traditional Judo? Is it respected or an unspoken step child?

Before Judo can become combo Judo, Judo has to be transformed from Gi to no Gi first. I still remember when I was in the Judo forum and suggested the no Gi training, everybody heated me for suggesting that and I didn't know why. Today I understand some people prefer that Judo to stay in sport Judo. They don't care about combat Judo (integrate with striking art).

 

[drop bear]

Yes, but you have not heard of them…

Judo has an objective standard.

So for example if it was dan kelly then he probably knows what he is talking about.

 

[Alan0354]

Before Judo can become combo Judo, Judo has to be transformed from Gi to no Gi first. I still remember when I was in the Judo forum and suggested the no Gi training, everybody heated me for suggesting that and I didn't know why. Today I understand some people prefer that Judo to stay in sport Judo. They don't care about combat Judo (integrate with striking art).

Yeh, I kept thinking about in real life, if you grab the guy's shirt, you might end up with the sleeve or the collar in your hand!!!

Might sound funny here, it won't be so funny when the guy is still standing behind you!!!

Anyway, too bad I have not even think a lot about Judo for over 50 years. I think I lost all the instinct and reflex of Judo. It would be so nice if I can pull out some Judo to add to my kick boxing stuff.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Regarding the history of judo it was intentionally designed to not be military, that was the whole point in the name change from "jutsu" to "do."

In other words the focus wasn't about service, sacrifice, or battlefield use, and no longer a way of death, as in jutsu. Rather now the martial art was about gain, rather than sacrifice. Do "a way of life" was about improving yourself instead of killing or being killed as in "a way of death."

Judo's combat roots is found in traditional Japanese jujitsu.

 

[drop bear]

Regarding the history of judo it was intentionally designed to not be military, that was the whole point in the name change from "jutsu" to "do."

In other words the focus wasn't about service, sacrifice, or battlefield use, and no longer a way of death, as in jutsu. Rather now the martial art was about gain, rather than sacrifice. Do "a way of life" was about improving yourself instead of killing or being killed as in "a way of death."

Judo's combat roots is found in traditional Japanese jujitsu.

You would be hard pressed to find a jap jitz huy who could take a God judoka.

Mabye one of the guys from tri tac. But they are very far removed from jap jits these days.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeh, I kept thinking about in real life, if you grab the guy's shirt, you might end up with the sleeve or the collar in your hand!!!

Might sound funny here, it won't be so funny when the guy is still standing behind you!!!

Anyway, too bad I have not even think a lot about Judo for over 50 years. I think I lost all the instinct and reflex of Judo. It would be so nice if I can pull out some Judo to add to my kick boxing stuff.

You can do more with someone’s t-shirt than some think. Most t-shirts will work for pulling someone into a throw (but not over and over). And if you practice with them, you are unlikely to be overwhelmed by the moment one tears.

 

[Jared Traveler]

You would be hard pressed to find a jap jitz huy who could take a God judoka.

Mabye one of the guys from tri tac. But they are very far removed from jap jits these days.

Drop Bear, as a 20+ year practitioner of Judo myself, I don't dispute that at all. Jigero Kano made many improvements to the way Jujitsu was practiced(a topic all its own). But my point is not reflective on how effective it is for combat vs old school jujitsu. Only that he overtly and intentionally oriented it away from a combat focus.

 

[Holmejr]

Most

Drop Bear, as a 20+ year practitioner of Judo myself, I don't dispute that at all. Jigero Kano made many improvements to the way Jujitsu was practiced(a topic all its own). But my point is not reflective on how effective it is for combat vs old school jujitsu. Only that he overtly and intentionally oriented it away from a combat focus.

I have no interest in MA for sport, even though I am much more peace maker than fighter. I’ve not seen a Judo video yet, where the perp has been eye gouged, elbowed and kneed, what we call softened up, and then thrown, locked or broken. GM was high level Doce Pares/San Miguel, Judoka and Tang Soo Do. Obviously, he created a unique system that he believed addressed modern combat/street situations. Looks like “combat judo” may have many definitions and no real standard.

 

[lklawson]

We teach it as part of Eskrido de Alcuizar. I understand, although I might be wrong, that it was created more or less due to the needs of modern military hand to hand combat needs. For those that know Judo tradition/origins, was the combat side ever a part of the system. Is it valid separate MA apart from traditional Judo? Is it respected or an unspoken step child?

"Combat" and "non-sport" application of Judo has always been a part of the art. You can see this very clearly in Harrison's 1912 The Fighting Spirit of Japan where he documents the extracurricular events of the Judoka in the club he attended. He claims that the Sensei were OK with it because he got paid to set the bones they broke on the weekend.

Straight up, unmodified, Judo was also part of the basic training for British and American soldiers during WWI (there is film) and this continued unabated through WWII and continued to be taught as such by people such as Carl Cestari.

Nevertheless, for various social and political reasons, during WWII or thereabouts people started adding "Combat" in front of the term "Judo." Famously, this included Cosneck's American Combat Judo, a combatives manual, which combined Judo, wrestling, and Savate.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Anyway, too bad I have not even think a lot about Judo for over 50 years. I think I lost all the instinct and reflex of Judo. It would be so nice if I can pull out some Judo to add to my kick boxing stuff.

The foot sweep should be able to add into your kickboxing nicely.

 

[frank raud]

As Kirk has mentioned, Combat Judo is a catch all phrase, often associated with WWII Combatives. Bernard Cosneck wrote American Combat Judo, Robert Carlin wrote Combat Judo. I know a ma who was trained in the Phillipines, part of what he was taught was called Combat Judo.