Where are all the fighters?

[cwk]

That was a nice thought provoking post Brian, Thank you.
I'd just like to say, however, I don't think Yak sao, Myself and others were posting with any mean or malicious intent. Most of us have been talking on here for a while now and others have been doing so for much longer and I think it was just a bit of venting frustration in a non serious fashion.
I (and I'm sure most of if not all the others) am always encouraging with my words when I speak to students, and of course I realise it's not easy, but I also don't think a couple of hours per week training a little at home is too much to ask of anyone.

 

[Tez3]

I'm no Sifu, but I hear what OP is saying.
Not everyone is a fighter. Doesn't mean they aren't a hobbyist or an enthusiast, which is fine. To each their own.
I started wing chun because I saw that my fighting skills weren't horrible, but they weren't all that great, especially against faster, stronger, or more experienced people. I want to learn how to fight and win.
After some time at a WC school, I learned that not everyone can put as much time or energy into learning and practicing as I can due to all the commitments stated by others in this thread. That's just life, people have business to attend too and that fine. I'm sure they do as much as they feel necessary given their goals and their other commitments.
Other people 'just don't get it'. Not their fault, but they just don't. Not everyone can be a good fighter (or remember half the stuff they are taught) even if they put all they have into it.
I agree with whoever said that MMA is the thing to do these days and that's where lots of the "fighters" go. Maybe it's just me, but after you've been in some fights, you realize that banging force against force isn't always the best option, and fights can be won faster and easier with some skill and theory. Stand on the shoulders of giants ( all the hundreds of years of martial arts fighters- from muay thai to kali to wing chun) and you will be able to see further. But not everyone thinks martial arts is 'cool' or practical, due to the culture and their own misunderstanding. For some reason, all Americans think that they are born with the ability to box and take care of themselves in a street fight.

I have been blessed with a school that has some 'fighters' in it and Sifu continues to teach to our level and provide us with the knowledge and training we need.

We have a lot of people who come to our MMA and don't want to fight, they do it for the fitness, the weight loss, the self confidence you can get from doing a martial art and the general enjoyment of the sport. With us it appeals to a lot of people because we don't grade and don't have a syllabus, we teach whatever the people in on a night need to know. Most of our students are military so this suits them down to the ground (small pun forgive me) they have exercises, deployments and public duties ( the recent Jubilee stuff, lining streets etc and last year we had them away for four weeks as they were Trooping the Colour in London) at the moment it's pre-deployment training, in the Autumn they will be off to Afghan. The civvies we have are lads at school and at 15/16 they have their exams so can be off for a couple of weeks at a time, it's important they do well in their exams we stress that, school before MMA, though it does provide a relief from the stress of them. We have a couple of other lads who train but they seem to have caught the fatherhood bug and also because money is tight here they are either doing two jobs or are doing overtime to make some money. One is working over 60 hours a week. When they do make it in they tend not to have to recap the basics they seem to stick and perhaps it's a bit easier because you can 'ad lib' a bit more in MMA than TMA's.

Not having a pop here at men but a lot of them (not just Americans lol) think that like car mechanics and driving, boxing comes naturally to them!

 

[Punchy]

I hesitate to use the term martial artist. In fact, I’ve never really liked that term. I’ve seen too many people put the emphasis on the artist part, rather than the martial part.
By being an artist, you are not held to concrete standards, because art is abstract and as we’ve all heard, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So to call yourself a martial artist, you are in some ways, giving yourself license to be ineffective.
That’s why I prefer the term fighter. It cuts right to the heart of what it means to study a martial art. Being a fighter is more than just putting on gloves and proceeding to beat the hell out of each other. Being a fighter is an attitude.
Being a fighter is developing mental and physical toughness. It is to keep going, even though everyone else around you has quit. It is pushing past your limits, throwing that extra couple of punches or kicks, going just one more round on the bag, running that extra 50 yards instead of taking the easy way out and just stopping to catch your breath.
Being a fighter is perfecting your skills. It is never settling for good enough, because you know it can always be done better.
It isn’t being a troglodyte or being some sort of gung ho maniac who wants to smash their opponent.. It is treating yourself and others with respect. Being a fighter is carrying yourself with a little extra dignity.
That’s what I mean by fighter. Not everyone will have the skills of an Emin Boztepe, or a Joe Lewis. But we can learn from their work ethic. How did they get where they are? Training, and lots of it. Training while others were sitting. Training while others decided to take the night off.
We can’t always do the thing we’d like to do. Class time is often interrupted by family and work. There’s nothing wrong with that. In fact, family and responsibility should always come first.
But honestly evaluate yourself. Whether you can make it to class or not, there are times throughout the day/week we can all train more than we do. We may just have the time and energy for a couple of minutes on the heavy bag, or a quick 50 pushups. But there's time.
We can all have the attitude of a fighter.

 

[EddieCyrax]

yak, I agree with most of your definition of a fighter. With this said however, I think your definition of art misses the point.

I am sure you have watched trained "fighters" of all skill levels working their material, and as such you can see and admire the technical skill, flow, control, power, stance, etc as they go through the motions. One of the largest draws (at least for me) to the martial arts is learning to move with all the adjectives descriped above. This ease of movement and combat effectiveness only comes from the zillion hours of work.

Art does not have to be abstract and I would argue the most beautiful thing to watch is a well trained fighter. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I would not depict the "art" side of training as weakness, but rather the beauty that is derived from all the hours and focus of ones craft.

 

[Punchy]

yak, I agree with most of your definition of a fighter. With this said however, I think your definition of art misses the point.

I am sure you have watched trained "fighters" of all skill levels working their material, and as such you can see and admire the technical skill, flow, control, power, stance, etc as they go through the motions. One of the largest draws (at least for me) to the martial arts is learning to move with all the adjectives descriped above. This ease of movement and combat effectiveness only comes from the zillion hours of work.

Art does not have to be abstract and I would argue the most beautiful thing to watch is a well trained fighter. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I would not depict the "art" side of training as weakness, but rather the beauty that is derived from all the hours and focus of ones craft.

I don't think we disagree. To see someone well trained in martial arts demonstrate their ability is an amazing thing to see. I don't equate the art side as weakness at all, in fact, that is the difference between someone of high skill who is able to perform a movement with apparent ease and a brute who simply muscles through the movements.
The Chinese have it right:
Kung Fu. time and effort spent to develop a skill.

Something that I'm afraid is sadly lacking in much of what we see today.

 

[geezer]

The Chinese have it right: Kung Fu. time and effort spent to develop a skill.

Something that I'm afraid is sadly lacking in much of what we see today.

Too true, Yak Sau. I earn my living these days as a high school art teacher, and for quite a few years I've been teaching ceramics. Ceramics is both an art and a craft. That is to say that it has a non-functional or purely aesthetic component (art) and a functional component requiring considerable skill or craftsmanship to produce. To produce a ceramic object that is aesthetically pleasing, is well made, and elegantly functional is no mean feat.

When I train students on the potter's wheel, I will show them simple techniques which must be practiced in precise sequence over and over to master. Few have the patience or discipline to follow through, and it shows in their lack of progress and poor work. Increasingly as the years go by, they don't even seem to care. If it doesn't come easily, they can't be bothered.

To get through to the kids I show them a video of a personal friend of mine who is a true master. Half a century ago he trained pottery in school, but wasn't satisfied with his level of skill, so he sought out some of the last living craftsmen potters, part of an unbroken chain of craft traceable from son to father to grandfather back across the generations to their European forbearers. He began his apprenticeship by spending over a month doing nothing but preparing clay for the journeymen potters. He had to work a hard eight hour shift and then he was allowed to stay after and use the facilities to hone his skills.

Eventually, he became skilled enough to be allowed to join the other potters and make simple bowls. By the time he finished his training he could throw 25 pound masses of clay into very large vessels in a few minutes, and use his bare hands to transform over a thousand pounds of clay into beautiful pottery in a single day. Decades later, when I met him, he was more the artist than the potter, but he still had every ounce of his hard earned skill.

Once at a charity benefit, I saw him make 90 high quality bowls in 90 minutes, all at a relaxed pace, talking, taking occasional breaks to get a drink or more clay. That's averaging better than a bowl a minute ...and he could maintain that pace as long as he chose. Or if he chooses, he can make huge vessels and with a few deft moves, transform them into either abstract or figurative sculptures. Needless to say he has a grip like a vise and forearms like knotted steel cords. Now that's Kung fu.

When I explain this to my high school students, they often yawn loudly, and blurt out comments like "Are you through yet? This is sooooo boring". So it's not just martial arts. Welcome to the modern world!

 

[Punchy]

Too true, Yak Sau. I earn my living these days as a high school art teacher, and for quite a few years I've been teaching ceramics. Ceramics is both an art and a craft. That is to say that it has a non-functional or purely aesthetic component (art) and a functional component requiring considerable skill or craftsmanship to produce. To produce a ceramic object that is aesthetically pleasing, is well made, and elegantly functional is no mean feat.

When I train students on the potter's wheel, I will show them simple techniques which must be practiced in precise sequence over and over to master. Few have the patience or discipline to follow through, and it shows in their lack of progress and poor work. Increasingly as the years go by, they don't even seem to care. If it doesn't come easily, they can't be bothered.

To get through to the kids I show them a video of a personal friend of mine who is a true master. Half a century ago he trained pottery in school, but wasn't satisfied with his level of skill, so he sought out some of the last living craftsmen potters, part of an unbroken chain of craft traceable from son to father to grandfather back across the generations to their European forbearers. He began his apprenticeship by spending over a month doing nothing but preparing clay for the journeymen potters. He had to work a hard eight hour shift and then he was allowed to stay after and use the facilities to hone his skills.

Eventually, he became skilled enough to be allowed to join the other potters and make simple bowls. By the time he finished his training he could throw 25 pound masses of clay into very large vessels in a few minutes, and use his bare hands to transform over a thousand pounds of clay into beautiful pottery in a single day. Decades later, when I met him, he was more the artist than the potter, but he still had every ounce of his hard earned skill.

Once at a charity benefit, I saw him make 90 high quality bowls in 90 minutes, all at a relaxed pace, talking, taking occasional breaks to get a drink or more clay. That's averaging better than a bowl a minute ...and he could maintain that pace as long as he chose. Or if he chooses, he can make huge vessels and with a few deft moves, transform them into either abstract or figurative sculptures. Needless to say he has a grip like a vise and forearms like knotted steel cords. Now that's Kung fu.

When I explain this to my high school students, they often yawn loudly, and blurt out comments like "Are you through yet? This is sooooo boring". So it's not just martial arts. Welcome to the modern world!

Good stuff. Keep sharing that with your students. Someday somebody is going to get it and it will inspire them to great things.
In fact, I would be willing to bet, someone's already got it.

I shared this some time ago, here it is again.

A musician took the stage, a master violinist from the Louisville Orchestra. He told the audience how he had just returned from a trip to Scotland. Every morning, he said, He would go out on the balcony, overlooking the ocean, and there would be an old Scotsman there, on the beach, clad in his traditional kilt. The violinist told us how he would sit on his balcony and listen, as the old Scotsman, looking out over the waters, would play Amazing Grace on the bagpipes. He related to us that it was the most beautiful and haunting thing that he had ever heard, and that he wanted to share what he experienced with us. Placing his violin under his chin, he proceeded to play Amazing Grace; only, it wasn’t a violin we heard, but bagpipes. This man, this master, had mastered his craft to the point, that he transcended it. He was no longer confined by the artificial boundaries imposed on him. As I closed my eyes, I was transported to that shoreline in Scotland.

That is one of the finest examples of kung fu I have ever witnessed.

 

[Triangle]

are you a fighter mr yak sao?

 

[Punchy]

are you a fighter mr yak sao?

Nope...I just like to b!tch

 

[Triangle]

Sounded like that, Im only into wing chun for the tea partys myself,

 

[Punchy]

Sounded like that, Im only into wing chun for the tea partys myself,

Love a good glass of tea myself