When training women should they recieve special treatment ?

[blindsage]

Actually I practice Iron Anus Qigong.

 

[Guardian]

I will answer the OP question. Most of the women I trained with would be insulted, so my answer is no.

I bet you didnt know that if you poke a pit bull in the bung hole with a stick his jaws will unlock... imagine that

What??? Where do people come up with this stuff LOL LMBO. Jaws locking is a myth and the rest of this is just plain silly.

 

[Guardian]

I will answer the OP question. Most of the women I trained with would be insulted, so my answer is no.

I bet you didnt know that if you poke a pit bull in the bung hole with a stick his jaws will unlock... imagine that

What??? Where do people come up with this stuff LOL LMBO. Jaws locking is a myth and the rest of this is just plain silly.

My apologies, the thumbs down icon is suppose to be behind the last word "Silly". Still getting use to how these icons work.

 

[BLACK LION]

Actually that's not true. Women have been known to attack other women in the same way men attack other men. There are some "alpha females" that like to show they're tough by beating the crap out of some other girl. It's a common gang initiation. Also, let's not forget about that video posted on youtube of those teenage girls beating some poor girl half to death just for the fun of it.
I know all about "alpha females".. I live in university heights in san diego which is a primarily lesbian part of the city.
Tell me when the last time a female raped and murdered another or kidnapped and molested etc. There are "women predators" but the numbers pale in comparison to male ones. As you can see, I am not coming from a social standpoint but an asocial one... girls jumping another like you see in the internet clips is a social situattion... a woman being raped at gunpoint and the murdered is asocial ... train for one or the other but hope the latter never happens if you train to combat "socially"...



Always assume? So if a guy at a bar gets a little too "touchy-feely" a woman should gouge his eyes out and crush his throat and sack? That's a quick way to go to prision. No... but here again you are giving me a social scenario that is devoid of violence or asocial behavior. At the same time, being trained to take them out completely affords a level of competence that give you the tools to diffues the situation without compromising anything. Just like with men, there are variying degrees of violence against women. What of domestic abuse where a husband slaps around his wife. He's not intending to kill her just humilate her, so she should be able to defend herself through martial training without resulting to cold blodded killing. Here is another social referral... if a woman is being slapped around at home then she needs to leave her husband not break down in a deep stance and roundhouse him in the stomach to "defend" herself... The goal should be to escape from danger and there are times when that may require a person to permanently injure an attacker, but it is erronious to assume this shuld always be the case. If you assume it is always the case which it rarely is, then you have ample capability and understanding on what to do and when to do it. There is a time and place for everyhting and violence is rarely the answer. However if you only train at a certain capacity then when the shyt really hits the fan you will be lost in what seems like chaos but is actually really simple.


But they can be defended by almost anyone. Eyes, throat, and groins are targets everyone knows they should defend, so tactics must be used to open up these areas, plus I posted in another thread a situation were gouging a person's eyes didn't work. Never assume a person will go down because you've torn out their eyes, curshed their balls, and destroyed their throat. Can they die from these injuries, yes. Is it always immediate, no. And again these don't address non-life threatening attacks. I do not think you understand both the cause and effect state and injuries alltogether... I never spewed out a recipe for one shot one kill...
If you tear out an eye...they just lost a sensory organ and thier central nervous reacts to that leaving them vulnerable to injury elsewhere and so on until satisfied...
If you crush a scrotum there is an effect on the central nervous system that cannot be controlled leaving them vulnerable... same as a shot to the liver or trachea or brachial plexus or inner ear or saphenous nerve.... there are plenty of options that provide a cns response or spinal reflex... the eyes throat and groin just cant be conditioned like a trapezius muscle or quadracep and so on....
I never train to rely on one singular option... I will take as many options as possible until I am satisfied and will accept no compromise...
The strike to the eyes you mentioned may have seen success had the chain of injury continued to other areas such as the ones I mentioned above and others not mentioned...

Unless someone has a special circumstance such as a physical disability, a learning disability, or perhaps been traumatized by some kind of sexual or violent encounter, no adult should be treated different than any other adult within the dojo regardless of sex, sexual orientation..yadda, yadda, yadda.

In training, regardless of where or when all are equal...no matter the limitation or disability...everyone can adapt and improvise... the ones that cant, wont even bother to train.

 

[shihansmurf]

Actually I practice Iron Anus Qigong.

Ewww...

Just, ewww.......


Mark

 

[BLACK LION]

I will answer the OP question. Most of the women I trained with would be insulted, so my answer is no.

I bet you didnt know that if you poke a pit bull in the bung hole with a stick his jaws will unlock... imagine that

What??? Where do people come up with this stuff LOL LMBO. Jaws locking is a myth and the rest of this is just plain silly.

Strange... my cousin breeds blue pits and his just attacked his female after she pit him... he locked on the throat and would not let go... He is also a practitioner of bunjinkan and nothing worked accept a 1/2" thick chain across the skull. So yes... they do lock on and will not let go unless EXTREME measures are taken...
I told him that next time, before bludgeoning your dog almost to death to ram a stick in his **** and he will let go. Easy way to save 2 dogs without them getting seriously injured or killed...
His other dog was not so lucky and suffered a punctured esophagus. This is partly becuase of all the things he tried to get the dog off...he just sank in deeper.

No their jaws do not technically lock...but with stronger jaws and a higher pain tolerance than its peers it might as well...

When was the last time you had to deal with a bloodthirsty animal??

 

[shihansmurf]

Having said that, I would imagine that forceful insertion of a stick into the rectum of any creature would cause it to stop what it was doing.

Daniel

I am covering stick disarms with my class tonight and for my lead in I like to show a few videos of the Dog Brothers in action. Sometimes I use a club and strike a stick that the student is holding so they can get an idea of how dangerous and effective of a weapon a simple stick can be.

Now I am forced to use your quote as a motivational tool.



Thanks

Mark

 

[Guardian]

Strange... my cousin breeds blue pits and his just attacked his female after she pit him... he locked on the throat and would not let go... He is also a practitioner of bunjinkan and nothing worked accept a 1/2" thick chain across the skull. So yes... they do lock on and will not let go unless EXTREME measures are taken...
I told him that next time, before bludgeoning your dog almost to death to ram a stick in his **** and he will let go. Easy way to save 2 dogs without them getting seriously injured or killed...
His other dog was not so lucky and suffered a punctured esophagus. This is partly becuase of all the things he tried to get the dog off...he just sank in deeper.

No their jaws do not technically lock...but with stronger jaws and a higher pain tolerance than its peers it might as well...

When was the last time you had to deal with a bloodthirsty animal??

Ok, I'm glad you posted paragraph 3 here, because I've been an Animal Control Officer/Supervisor for 8 years now and we were going to have a long discussion on truth and facts of animals here LOL.

I will agree that their jaw anatomy is different then most breeds and they can exert a tremendous amount of pressure with those jaws and through past breeding they were taught to grag hold and not let go

As far as your last question, check the profile Lion, almost every dang day partner (Animal Control Officer/Supervisor) and 30% of the dogs we deal with are loose aggressive dogs and 20% of them are Pit Bulls. Is your brother registered with any kennels or on the net or associated with any organization if he's a breeder, I like looking up dogs on the net, especially pits, I like the dogs almost as good as my Golden Retriever.

In fact just yesterday, I was evaluating my new officer, I have 7 officers under me, we had three calls for aggressive Pit Bulls and I needed to evaluate how he handled himself in these types of situation, so we took those two calls and of course, I'm not going to let anything happen to him if he hesitates, so I'm in front, but he came through with flying colors. One turned out to be a wimp once cornered on the porch, the other two were adrenaline rushes.

Anymore questions?

 

[Guardian]

Originally Posted by Daniel Sullivan

Having said that, I would imagine that forceful insertion of a stick into the rectum of any creature would cause it to stop what it was doing.

Daniel

LOL LMBO, usually it would I imagine.

 

[tellner]

I originally heard that bit about the pit bull from a TKD teacher decades ago. But he suggested using a thumb instead of a stick. I guess you can wiggle it around to find the terminus of the vagus nerve or some such. He had other strange ideas as well.

It's a lot like the recipe for Rabbit Stew. "First, catch a rabbit."

An instant later Professor Waxman
and his time machine were obliterated
leaving the cold-blooded / warm-blooded
debate still unresolved.
​

 

[Aiki Lee]

1. There is absolutely no way you could consider being beaten as a social event. Sometimes it is not possible to simply leave if someone is trying to hurt you; there is such a thing as escalation of force and a competent warrior should be able to defend himself/herself without having to resort to deadly force.

2. A woman being beaten by her husband should just leave? Try telling that to any of the women at your local shelter. Plus if a man is actively slapping her around she should be able to knock him on his *** without killing him, whihc could end her up in prision.

3. You make it sound like the only real threats a person can face are death or rape. What about battery or assault? Many violent crimes like rape and murder start with smaller crimes that escalate, there is nothing social about any violence even on the smallest scale, and to be able to escape one may need to result to physical self-defense that does not call for the force you are insisting people need to use.

4. Lastly I don't practice sport MA. I practice aiki ninjutsu, which is a very effective self-defense oriented martial art. And we don't train women any different than we train men.

 

[Tez3]

You can't breed pit bulls legally here now or even own them now. Owners at the time of the law being made legal didn't have to put them down though just control them.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1991/ukpga_19910065_en_1

"1 Dogs bred for fighting
(1) This section applies to—
(a) any dog of the type known as the pit bull terrier;
(b) any dog of the type known as the Japanese tosa; and
(c) any dog of any type designated for the purposes of this section by an order of the Secretary of State, being a type appearing to him to be bred for fighting or to have the characteristics of a type bred for that purpose.
(2) No person shall—
(a) breed, or breed from, a dog to which this section applies;
(b) sell or exchange such a dog or offer, advertise or expose such a dog for sale or exchange;
(c) make or offer to make a gift of such a dog or advertise or expose such a dog as a gift;
(d) allow such a dog of which he is the owner or of which he is for the time being in charge to be in a public place without being muzzled and kept on a lead; or
(e) abandon such a dog of which he is the owner or, being the owner or for the time being in charge of such a dog, allow it to stray. "

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Actually that's not true. Women have been known to attack other women in the same way men attack other men. There are some "alpha females" that like to show they're tough by beating the crap out of some other girl. It's a common gang initiation. Also, let's not forget about that video posted on youtube of those teenage girls beating some poor girl half to death just for the fun of it.

I will agree with both you and Black Lion;

I would agree with Black Lion; actually, it is true for women.

As in adult women who live normative lives (i.e. not associated with gangs, etc.).

I would agree with you, Kenshin regarding girls.

The boys tend to leave the girls alone in terms of 'fighting', which leaves the rarer cases of rape or honest (meaning true intent to harm, not just a slap or a shove) attacks by boys. Most physical altercations that kids have will be with someone of the same gender. Boys spend their time jockeying for position in the pecking order and leave the girls out of it, while the girls to the same within their own circles. Once gangs are involved, shootings or rumbles not withstanding, you still have the same dynamic; the girls are more likely to be attacked by other girls than by guys in general.

But once out of high school, girls tend to be less inclined to physically fight with eachother than guys, and guys are less inclined to physically fight after high school in general; both mainly because they no longer are shielded from the consequences of their actions by virtue of being minors.

Young ladies who are inclined to solve their problems with violence after high school have all of the same inherent problems in doing so as young men who continue to fight after high school. In addition, they have the problem that women generally do not consider fighting to be 'cool', thus once outside of school they enter a more sophisticated social setting where beating on other young ladies or women results in not only serious legal consequences, but also in being ostracized by their peers.

Such young ladies either grow up and find other ways of solving their problems or are marginalized to social groups where such behaviour is acceptable. And those groups are definitely a small minority amongs women who have graduated high school.

Daniel

 

[BLACK LION]

I will agree with both you and Black Lion;

I would agree with Black Lion; actually, it is true for women.

As in adult women who live normative lives (i.e. not associated with gangs, etc.).

I would agree with you, Kenshin regarding girls.

The boys tend to leave the girls alone in terms of 'fighting', which leaves the rarer cases of rape or honest (meaning true intent to harm, not just a slap or a shove) attacks by boys. Most physical altercations that kids have will be with someone of the same gender. Boys spend their time jockeying for position in the pecking order and leave the girls out of it, while the girls to the same within their own circles. Once gangs are involved, shootings or rumbles not withstanding, you still have the same dynamic; the girls are more likely to be attacked by other girls than by guys in general.

But once out of high school, girls tend to be less inclined to physically fight with eachother than guys, and guys are less inclined to physically fight after high school in general; both mainly because they no longer are shielded from the consequences of their actions by virtue of being minors.

Young ladies who are inclined to solve their problems with violence after high school have all of the same inherent problems in doing so as young men who continue to fight after high school. In addition, they have the problem that women generally do not consider fighting to be 'cool', thus once outside of school they enter a more sophisticated social setting where beating on other young ladies or women results in not only serious legal consequences, but also in being ostracized by their peers.

Such young ladies either grow up and find other ways of solving their problems or are marginalized to social groups where such behaviour is acceptable. And those groups are definitely a small minority amongs women who have graduated high school.

Daniel

Outstanding assesment


Also... I know I touched uncharted territory with the anus thing but it holds true to man and beast alike...It is a very viable target. Its a no go zone that puts people and animals way out of their comfort zone and offers the ability to compromise them and gain the overall advantage.

I was jumped and taken down by a larger guy who in-turn was able to put me in an arm bar... he began to tighten it up to pop my arm but the target was right there... I used the "knife hand" or "spear hand" and utilized the target which was clearly available... the spinal reflex was text book... they jerked backward and kicked the legs at the same time like a fish out of water and by then I was on my feet stomping and kicking targets.

there is a definative eeewwwwww factor but damnit its effects are priceless...

thanks guys

 

[BLACK LION]

1. There is absolutely no way you could consider being beaten as a social event.Yes it is if the goal of the parties is to inflict pain and not injury. Sometimes it is not possible to simply leave if someone is trying to hurt you; there is such a thing as escalation of force and a competent warrior should be able to defend himself/herself without having to resort to deadly force. Targeting weakness does not equate to deadly force. Neither does inflicting injury. A woman once prevented a brutal rape and murder by grabbing her attackers scrotum after he turned off the lights and jumped in the bed to get some... she squeezed them with conviction despite the fact he was punching her in the face and even threw her against the wall...she never let go even after a tumble down the stairs... by that time he was begging her to release him which she did...naked and all... then she went upstairs and grabbed a gun, came back and fired two rounds in the direction he ran before calling 911. true story.

2. A woman being beaten by her husband should just leave? Try telling that to any of the women at your local shelter. Plus if a man is actively slapping her around she should be able to knock him on his *** without killing him, whihc could end her up in prision. You originally implied she was merely being slapped around. And if they are at the shelter then they must have decided to leave. If a woman is being slapped around or beaten they could easily be injured severely and that doesnt mean use deadly force but a strike to a target doesnt always equate to death.

3. You make it sound like the only real threats a person can face are death or rape. What about battery or assault?No I dont but if you train as such then the not so extreme situations are way easier to deal with. Many violent crimes like rape and murder start with smaller crimes that escalate, there is nothing social about any violence even on the smallest scale, and to be able to escape one may need to result to physical self-defense that does not call for the force you are insisting people need to use. If you speak of violence then the force required to injure is a must and the one who wants to make it out needs to be the one injuring. Not all situations require death nor will the all result in death... but at the same time understanding what it takes to put someone down is paramount. A thumb jabbed into the eye socket is not deadly but it buys more time to continue injuring or egress/escape... a clap to the ear may not kill them cold but it will impair balance-equilibrium and such if the inner or middle ear is traumatized... a forearm to the sternocledomastoid is not a kill shot but if effected properly will begin if not secure the fainting process...
the key is understanding the targets and the effects of hitting them including the spinal reflex associated... what anyone faced with conflict should strive for is to be the one who is not compromising one bit yet making the threat compromise completely... get them to do what you want...not the other way around... its always all about you and never them.

4. Lastly I don't practice sport MA. I practice aiki ninjutsu, which is a very effective self-defense oriented martial art. And we don't train women any different than we train men.

Ninjutsu is good stuff.
It has afforded me a wealth of information.

 

[Deaf Smith]

a female social worker friend of mine wants me to train her and 2 of her co workers ( females also ) , i told her id get back to her that i was gonna get my game plan together on how i would execute sessions with them.

%-}

Depends.

If it's a martal arts class that has emphsis on the art, yea.

If the class is to prepare them to defend themselves on the street, no.

Deaf

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

1. There is absolutely no way you could consider being beaten as a social event. Sometimes it is not possible to simply leave if someone is trying to hurt you; there is such a thing as escalation of force and a competent warrior should be able to defend himself/herself without having to resort to deadly force.

As a general rule, I would agree with you. Putting being beaten into the context of professional boxing, however, and they dynamic is now a sport, which is social.

The drunk who gets violent at the party may not be acting very social, but the event is social and because he is drunk, most everyone here would agree (I am likely the exception) that he should be handled with greater care than one would handle, say a gangbanger who is actively seeking to kill you.

For the record, once the drunk guy gets violent, I am all in favor of inflicting permanent crippling injuries to him. I hold drunks responsible for their actions and cut them zero slack in that area. Same with people who become violent in concert with recreational drug use.

2. A woman being beaten by her husband should just leave? Try telling that to any of the women at your local shelter. Plus if a man is actively slapping her around she should be able to knock him on his *** without killing him, whihc could end her up in prision.

To answer your first question, yes, she should if at all possible. Leave the house and call the police and press charges. Sadly, you do point out a very difficult situation. Sometimes, the police are unwilling to intervene to any great extent in a domestic dispute, and when the do intervene, since the guy is not put away for life, he will often ignore the restraining order and go right back to beating her up. Some will even try to track her down at the shelter if she winds up there, and wait for her to physically exit the premisis and attacker en rout to wherever she is going.

3. You make it sound like the only real threats a person can face are death or rape. What about battery or assault? Many violent crimes like rape and murder start with smaller crimes that escalate, there is nothing social about any violence even on the smallest scale, and to be able to escape one may need to result to physical self-defense that does not call for the force you are insisting people need to use.

Total agreement. Because of this very dynamic of small crimes escalating into larger crimes, I am a firm believer that any physical attack should always be treated as if it will end in death, and for ladies, death or rape. Once a person crosses the line to assault or battery, he or she has already demonstrated that they will break the law. If they cannot be trusted in smaller matters, they cannot be trusted in greater matters. Once it becomes physical, your life is on the line.

4. Lastly I don't practice sport MA. I practice aiki ninjutsu, which is a very effective self-defense oriented martial art. And we don't train women any different than we train men.

Sport MA has its benefits, but I am with you. Both men and women are out of the ring far more than they in the ring. The only threats in the ring are those of accidental death or injury (and there are rules and safety precautions in place to minimize that possiblilty) or negative impact on your competition record. In real life, the potential threats are much greater and there are no refs or safety precautions to minimize the danger.

Daniel

 

[Spartan 117]

This has got to be the weirdest exchange I've yet to read on martialtalk. I have to admit that I've never considered the deadly "poke the pitbull in the *** with a stick" defense. Handy, I imagine, if one were teaching Michael Vick.



I am forced to wonder at the experimentation that led to the discovery of this technique.

"Well, Bob, I've been thinking. For tonights' class were going to work on self defens againg suprise pit bull maulings."

"Bwaa!!"

"Oh I know its a suprise, but I thought it would be a good idea to be prepared for it, you know, just in case. Now since you've healed up from our orangutang training, I think were ready to begin."

"Okay......"

"Now, here's what you do. When it attack you it'll probably lock its jaws and thrash around. I want you to try repeated head strikes. Got it? Good. Okay I'm letting Fluffy out of the cage!"

"AAUGHH!!! GOD IT HURTS!!! HELP!! PLEASE!!!!"

"Oh hell, that didn't work, try pulling its ears!!"

"OW!OW!OW!OW!"

"Oh go, I'm gonna get sued again. I gotta do something. I know, I'll poke it in the *** with a stick. Most things hate that."

"moan....whimper...bleed...."

"Wow..it worked..and as soon as this pit bull stops chasing me, I'll have a new technique to add to the schools curriclum. Sweet!"


Mark

Well, now that was funny. I laughed like a madman.

Cool avatar by the way.

 

[tellner]

This has got to be the weirdest exchange I've yet to read on martialtalk. I have to admit that I've never considered the deadly "poke the pitbull in the *** with a stick" defense. Handy, I imagine, if one were teaching Michael Vick.



I am forced to wonder at the experimentation that led to the discovery of this technique.

"Well, Bob, I've been thinking. For tonights' class were going to work on self defens againg suprise pit bull maulings."

I'm guessing that the derivation was more theoretical than experimental. Imagine what would happen if you did manage to get the weapon directly on target. There would be a split second when a photographer with a fast camera would get the Platonic Ideal of the expression "Dawning Canine Realization". And then someone would have Fido's undivided attention.

 

[Aiki Lee]

BLACK LION,

I feel that I understand you a bit better, and while you and I seem to have some differences of opinions, I do agree with your last post, so it's good to see we can come to common ground.