When taking on students...

[Robert Carver]

I am sorry I had to have a little tantrum <<snip>>

That's OK, I would expect a tantrum from an immature 17 year old who after 10 years of NO formal martial arts training actually thinks they know enough to start teaching a martial art that they thought up while playing a video game. After 10 years of FORMAL training in a real martial arts curriculum, most students are just about at the point where they have a clue. But note, I used the word "student" for a reason. In the real (and non-video game or anime inspired) world of martial arts, after ten years, you have barely passed the point where you are considered a serious advanced student.

I don't know about what you may have gotten from any private messages, but I can only imagine. I don't have to "think" you still have a lot to learn, your own words in this forum has proven that. Someday, maybe, you will understand that no matter your level of experience in the martial arts (or life), you will always have a LOT to learn.

 

[Firona]

You say immature but then do you look back over your post? All you are doing is puting someone down, someone who I might add has done nothing in the way of personally insulting you, and without leaving with any form of advice. I say now, I have put my hands up and taken two steps back. Insult me if you will, I really don't care anymore. I just want to clear a few things up before the moderators close this thread (which they should) Someone has brought to light where most of this controversty stems. My 'students' aren't learning maelstrom, that is something I do myself to see if it works. I don't intend to teach them anything more than basic martial arts and self defence until, maybe, years from now I perfect a system. Thanks to all the people who are actually HELPING and for the rest of you thanks for your opinions.

 

[Han-Mi]

Carver, your just being mean... he's not gonna change his mind because of what we say. He will figure it out one day. Anyway, Firona, you never answered my questions. Do you have any formal training? if so: who what where when
If not: why not, Your family did, it was good enough for them, why not you?

 

[grappling_mandala]

Before taking on students, make sure you understand the core principles of other arts. Students are students, and what every bit of truth sticks to the core. This isn't a justification to 'test yourself,' this is a 'reinforcement of martial principles.' Every martial art has as it's vehical of application, the human body. Your art sounds "adaptable", now is the time to use that adaptability to learn the connective threads of truth that connect all the arts together.

Here is what I would do if I was you:

Find a good boxing gym. Don't go in to seek a challenge, just ask if you can get 'introduced' to boxing for a week to see if it's for you. Don't be cocky, just act like your a fast learner. If there seems like there are people there with good footwork and hands, on your last class ask if you can spar light to see what it feels like. Trust me, if your good, it won't be 'light' for long, but that way you'll make sure your theories apply to someone throwing 5 different punches in combinations. If you dance with them right away, cool. If not hang around and learn. It's a solid art to test any individual.

Find a good grappling club. Submission Grabbling, Brazillian Jiu Jitsu, College Judo club if nothing more, or even College Wrestling! Some guys who will want to bring you into a completely different range of combat that is very close and is an inverted reality to a lot of standup fighters. Find the baddest grappler you can, and see how your theories apply. It's very important that any theory you teach people is based on concepts applied in these environments. Why these environments and not the pre-determined or choreographed movements of other arts? Because these are ALIVE training environments. ALIVENESS is the alternative to repetition of forms. Aliveness teaches response within the alarm state.

Anyways, just my .03 cents

Dave in Oregon

 

[DeLamar.J]

You say immature but then do you look back over your post? All you are doing is puting someone down, someone who I might add has done nothing in the way of personally insulting you, and without leaving with any form of advice. I say now, I have put my hands up and taken two steps back. Insult me if you will, I really don't care anymore. I just want to clear a few things up before the moderators close this thread (which they should) Someone has brought to light where most of this controversty stems. My 'students' aren't learning maelstrom, that is something I do myself to see if it works. I don't intend to teach them anything more than basic martial arts and self defence until, maybe, years from now I perfect a system. Thanks to all the people who are actually HELPING and for the rest of you thanks for your opinions.

Just leave. :2xBird2:

 

[WLMantisKid]

Everyone always has a lot to learn... especially if you believe you know everything.

 

[Rob Broad]

We are getting down to word usage now people.

Word usage is the ability to communicate, and if you cannot communicate eloquently you van not teach properly or effectively.

One point I would like to bring foreward is, you have no right to assumed I have 'a lot to learn' .

My father used to keep a littel sign on the fridge that reminds me of your statement. "Teenagers move out of the house now while you still know everything. Don't wait til you are older and find out how much you really need to know."

I am sorry I had to have a little tantrum in here but it should be known that I am not the antogonist here, I am just asking a simple question.

The point is you should no be teaching with out the proper training, someone could easily get hurt and you will be paying for it for the rest of yor life.

 

[Robert Carver]

Carver, your just being mean...

Yep, that's me. Mr. Meanie. :ultracool

Firona, my apologies for being so harsh. However, everyone prior to my appearance in this thread has tried hard to set you straight, and you have not listened. One of the reasons why everyone has harped on the "formal" training bit is very simple. Part of training and learning a martial art in a formal dojo atmosphere is learning how to teach. Learning a martial art is more than just learning to kick, punch and twist joints. It is about learning the fine details of your art to the degree that you can communicate it to others. As a junior black belt (or even a brown belt) you will begin instructing junior students as part of your day to day training. Under the guidance of your instructor, you learn the fine points of communicating your art to another student. An instructor will watch very carefully how a junior will teach others, make adjustments, give advice, etc. That is what it is like to be in a formal dojo training environment, and you cannot get that with informal training in your backyard.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Unless this is another troll, what a beautiful example of what's wrong with contemporary martial arts.

As was noted, studied 10 whole years and is, "a master?" Never taught students before, and is, "a master?" Claims not to be saying anything arrogant, but the very first sentence asserts mastery, and is, "a master?" Not a chance in hell.

Second issue: the claim to have invented a whole new thing, with less time in the arts than I have--yet the, "new thing," looks exactly like video game narratives, or cheezy movies about Shaolin, or 19 other styles. Won't explain what he's talking about, deflects questions by claiming that the questioner is being mean. Won't give details of what he plans to teach; deflects questions with cliches.

Third issue: has no idea what a teacher's responsibilities are; is wrapped up with what he needs and what he wants and what he's doing. It's dangerous to take classes from guys like this. They're the ones who hurt students because they're wrapped up in their own egos, or take sexual advantage, or get off on having students bring them bowls of tea and rice, or teach phony arts that get students hurt.

Fourth off--enthusiasm and even arrogance in young students is, in its way, a great thing. They should work it off at tournaments, where it can be a great thing to see. They should also be around the older and more-cynical, who can regularly kick their young asses, so that they do not succumb to delusions of adequacy. It's especially a problem in the contemporary arts, which have clipped out so much of the tradition, ceremony, and structures that protect everybody.

It's probably just a troll. If not, the best thing to do with this stuff is to take it as a mirror of our own foibles and failures.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

In my opinion, no one without decades of real experience is qualified to 'create a style/art/system'.

I have to agree, if you want to teach, aprentice yourself at a legit school and learn. Every school I've been at, from McDojo to Hardcore has a system that builds instructors. Winning a few tournys doesn't qualify someone to invent their own 'thing'.

Too many frauds, fakers and wannabes out there....who teach pure crap and get people hurt or worse.

Tourny 'karate' is quite different from real combat/self defense arts...it takes years to figure out the differences and be able to switch...like 30+.

Anyone can take a few ideas, techniques or moves and claim 'new'. Its quite the leap to being the next Ed Parker, Remy Presas or Bruce Lee. (All of whom had extensive traditional experience)

 

[Scout_379]

Master was the wrong word dude. Being a "Master" means that you have learned all that you possibly can, and really have mastered the art. To quote my sensei: "you can never be a master until you have died, and cannot learn anymore," you are always learning. Just because you have learned so much from your current family senseis and have umm...equaled them, doesn't mean that you should start a new art.

Instead of tryin to create a new style like so many backyard, 1st dan, self-proclaimed-masters; just continue with your own style, but under a different sensei. Advance your knowledge in one already proven style, where you already have a solid base, instead of creating something new and unproven.

One point I would like to bring foreward is, you have no right to assumed I have 'a lot to learn'

The truth is, you do have a lot to learn. Im the same age as you, and have been training for 8yrs. But I kow that I have a great deal of growing to do in the martial arts, and in life. I don't think you should start teaching untill you really undertand what you are still learning yourself. The fact that you even asked what to teach your new students, and the way that you have acheived such high ranks in several arts in just 10 years makes me question your training.

My rule when it come to choosing my teachers: Never trust anything from a guy who insists on being called "master"

 

[kenpo tiger]

Firona,

I originally posted this under the sparring with girls thread (you really shouldn't refer to us as girls *sighs* -- please see below.) I think it speaks more to this topic.

You seem to be enthusiastic about martial arts, wanting to share your love of them with others, and asking lots of questions, as you should. Most of us joined this forum to read what others have to say, and since there are many many people - male and female alike - who belong to this forum who have vast amounts of experience in many arts, it's always a learning experience for me. As a budding writer you must find the different personalities interesting. Also as a budding martial artist.

Listen carefully to what you are being told in response to your posts. Although chronologically I am one of the elders in the group, in "martial age" I am still in martial arts preschool with my almost eight years of training. Also, please remember that you don't know who you are speaking to most of the time because the beauty of the internet is anonymity. I know there are some very very high-ranking kenpo stylists who are members of this forum - some who are second generation, were promoted by GrandMaster Parker himself, and who had a hand in writing the Infinite Insights series. No, kenpo isn't your art, but this is simply an example of how much experience there is to be found AND LEARNED FROM on this site.

There are threads which speak to masters and instructors who are skilled and deserve respect for that skill but have not and will never be given respect because they don't deserve it as people.

Please read what's been posted before. It's an opportunity to broaden yourself as a martial artist and a person.

Good luck in your future endeavors, Firona. :asian: KT

 

[Firona]

Master was the wrong word dude.

You ainte just whistlin dixie =P Even after appologizing for incorrect word usage I keep getting people jumping down my throat for this. The only thing I can say at this point is, read my former posts and understand that I am coming off wrong because I am trying to be consice in making one point and am ending up puting out another group of people because in doing so I have said something else that just isn't floating. SO this is my final post trying to put your fears to rest people. I know a bunch of others are going to skim over this and then just post what a billion others have already said and I have already tried to explain, I just hope some people take the time to read this.
First: I am not teaching a martial art based on learning advanced skills or moves, it is entirely philosophical at this point and you don't need proper footwork to talk philosophy.
Second: I am not calling myself a master, nor am I saying I know anything about anything anymore. the 'lot to learn' comment was to disuade people from telling me to leave the forums because I am incompetent.
Third: I am taking all of your advice to heart I just haven't had time to say anything about it because I have to defend myself at every turn. Thank you everyone for setting me straight in my views, I didn't mean to come in here and post the thread saying I was going to go out there and teach the world 'my new martial art' because I am the grand 'master' I just haven't been paying attention while I am typing, ugh.

 

[Flatlander]

SO this is my final post trying to put your fears to rest people. <snip> I didn't mean to come in here and post the thread saying I was going to go out there and teach the world 'my new martial art' because I am the grand 'master' I just haven't been paying attention while I am typing, ugh.

Hopefully, You will choose to stay on as a member of this board. There is a real wealth of knowledge here for everyone to share and experience.

I would just like to point out to you that numerous times, people have come onto the board here and proclaimed themselves as the best thing since sliced bread. It happens, and people get yantsy and freak out at them. If you are an experienced martial artist, you will understand that ego is a rampant problem out there in the real martial arts world, and not just online. If you are a serious and dedicated Martial Arts fanatic retard weirdo like me, you will choose to stay and drink from this overflowing cup of knowledge that the great visionary Kaith Rustaz has facilitated here. (Nice hair today, Kaith!)

Perhaps my opinion doesn't matter to you, and that's ok. It shouldn't. We've never met. But I think if you took a poll of all the people who regularly post here, they would ALL tell you that they have learned something here. Isn't that the ultimate goal of any student?

Good luck to you in whatever you choose.

 

[Rob Broad]

It is hard to have several people tell you something when you are trying to defend your principles. I applaud you for having the courage to stick around and defend your posts.

One of the big issues everyone has had is that you have NOT told anyone anything about your training. Who taught what to you for how long, what ranks have you achieved etc... What ranks are your relatives who taught you

There are a lot of very knowledgable people on this site, listen to them and learn from them, that is one of the biggest parts of being a good instructor. An instructor is a student first and foremost, we often learn from things we see our students do, but we also actively go out and search for more knowledge from reputable instructors.

What are the ages of the peope that you are training?

Again it is hard to defend oneself when you really haven't lived yet. I remember being 17 and thinking about fame and glory and how great it would be a great instructor. When you turn 30 you will look back and laugh at this episode, one o fthe things tat helps make a good instructor is seasoning, and that only comes with time. Most of the people have said to go to a reputable school to get some formal training, I would say "Do It!" and stick around til you are atleast a 3rd Black to get a solid base.

 

[Rob Broad]

Hopefully, You will choose to stay on as a member of this board. There is a real wealth of knowledge here for everyone to share and experience.

I would just like to point out to you that numerous times, people have come onto the board here and proclaimed themselves as the best thing since sliced bread. It happens, and people get yantsy and freak out at them. If you are an experienced martial artist, you will understand that ego is a rampant problem out there in the real martial arts world, and not just online. If you are a serious and dedicated Martial Arts fanatic retard weirdo like me, you will choose to stay and drink from this overflowing cup of knowledge that the great visionary Kaith Rustaz has facilitated here. (Nice hair today, Kaith!)

Perhaps my opinion doesn't matter to you, and that's ok. It shouldn't. We've never met. But I think if you took a poll of all the people who regularly post here, they would ALL tell you that they have learned something here. Isn't that the ultimate goal of any student?

Good luck to you in whatever you choose.

That is a great idea, maybe one of the supporting members could start a poll to show what the masses think.

 

[Firona]

One of the big issues everyone has had is that you have NOT told anyone anything about your training. Who taught what to you for how long, what ranks have you achieved etc... What ranks are your relatives who taught you

Yeah it seems like a good idea to talk about this hehe. As far as my father, he is a 1st BB in TKD. Two of my uncles i have no idea about, I would have to ask them, the important uncle is an instructor of Judo in MI. I learned a lot from him but he isn't around often, as he lives in another state. I took TKD for a year in which I was quickly promoted to BB (an injustice because I don't know crap in TKD I realize) and outside of that I have been going to various schools around here and have realized that none of them are any good. So, essentially I train on my own, learing what I can from people I know and from books and videos etc. I train physically for 5 hours every other day (not recently because my heavy bag finally fell apart. please a moment of silence for my heavy bag.) and then the psychological aspect I do far too much simply because I am an insomniac so I have a lot of free time at night. So there you have it, my inexperience =D one last thing to add in, sliced bread really wasn't all that great to begin with hehe

 

[Rob Broad]

Firona

PM me with your personal email address and I will send you a teaching aid that might help you out.

 

[TigerWoman]

So, now we are getting somewhere....

1) you are now owning up to what you know
2) education from a 1st dan even if he is your father is not much
3) you are enthusiastic and dedicated to martial arts
4) there has got to be a school around there that is somewhat beneficial
5) there is a lot of helpful people on this board - they helped and supported me immensely - they will you too if you are honest with them
6) what martial art would you like to investigate-check out this board...
7) ideas anyone for this young man? What's in Iowa?

???? TW

 

[Cryozombie]

7) ideas anyone for this young man? What's in Iowa?

???? TW

Corn.

Maybe he could study Corn-Fu.

Seriously, tho... I looked to see if the Bujinkan has any schools there for him, but none were listed in Iowa at all.