When is a Beginner no longer a Beginner?

[dvcochran]

From what I have read, the belt system originated in Japan somewhere between the late 19th and early 20th century.

There is a lot of mythology that non MA practitioners believe about black belts, which, any person who trains for a short period of time knows is not true. As a practicing attorney, I would put it this way. A black belt no more makes a person an expert in MA than a law degree makes a person an expert in the law.

Man, it is refreshing to hear an attorney willing to make that statement. Kudos!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That would be an interesting conversation to have with a older GI who came back from Japan (if any are still alive?). Perception changes so much from generation to generation. I agree that in the generation where GI's were coming home from Japan, BB was considered mystic thus an incredible attainment. Do you have any information on where/when/how the belt system was started? Most of us know the old story of wearing your white belt until it turns black but I do not know about it's validity.

There are many "origin myths" about belt ranks. I heard most of them from various instructors over the years. So far as I can tell, there's no validity to any of them (that the belt got dirty and turned black, that the colors were put in a certain order so students could dye their belts continuously, etc.). Danny's post about it originating with Kano is the same information I have, with more detail than I could have supplied.

Around WW2, most gendai arts in Japan seem to have been using kyu-dan and at least white/black belt (many using some version of the colors, too). There was already some Japanese MA in the US, but it was pretty sparse. A GI stationed in Japan after WW2 had the opportunity to take lessons from a "genuine Japanese sensei", and many did. Many were only stationed there 2-4 years, and BB could be attained in that time period. Mind you, these were young, athletic guys without a lot to do with their spare time, so they could train hard and probably more often than the average practitioner today. Still, that's a short run up to BB by the current standards of many US schools. Well, these GI's came home and (often with the blessing of their instructors in Japan) began teaching the art they'd learned. Because they all had BB and were teaching, many saw BB as a very high level (though it's arguable how many of these GI's were at that high of a level). In some styles (like my primary style) that became the new norm: BB=instructor. In other styles, it didn't take, and they still require 3rd dan or higher to teach - often with the "teaching" level being more comparable between styles than the BB rank is.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Yes, and that doesn't have much to do with attention span. As lives have gotten busier, instructors/school owners seem to have mostly decided it's easier to get folks in for 60 minutes than for 90+. I still run 90-minute classes, which is what every MA class I attended until around 2000 was. It helps, but there are still parts of the curriculum I don't get back to very often. And every time I circle back, I can tell who hasn't touched that in a long time.

Mind you, none of the curricula I've ever trained had anything like enough time in a single class to train anything close to the entire curriculum. Even if I just went through the 50 classical techniques in the core NGA curriculum, I'm not sure there's enough time for two partners to do all 50 on both sides. That's 200 total, most of them throws, with an average of under 30 seconds per completion, with no breaks and no discussion or correction. Usually, a pair of students can get through only one or two sets (10 techniques per set) in 45-60 minutes, and that takes focus. If we look at my entire curriculum, I could carve out at least 20 separate class-long chunks.

Maybe that's the point where you need to cut down on the curriculum a little, or split the classes up into "beginners" and "advanced" classes.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Maybe that's the point where you need to cut down on the curriculum a little, or split the classes up into "beginners" and "advanced" classes.

If I had more students - and more time to teach - I'd happily add an advanced class. Not enough of either to do that.

As for the curriculum, it's not really overwhelming. The core NGA curriculum is semi-cumulative - in most cases more advanced/difficult techniques are left for later. It's built around the concept of slow ingestion, and the focus mostly remains on the first 10 techniques even as students progress in the art. I've paired it up with other material (more striking and ground work for beginners, stick work in the middle, staff work later, etc.) to expand capability. It's not intended to be something you can cover in a single year of classes, but a regular progression for folks who want to keep training long-term. If someone came to me to train only for one year, I'd barely touch the traditional NGA curriculum.

 

[oldwarrior]

I got same info really as yourself on BB ...it a modern thing (modern meaning early 20th maybe very very late !9th cent) The coloured belts I really have no clue on as never had one lol...I'd guess that is later though

The only thing else I'd say is that the Koryu awarded "status" by means of scrolls and most of them hand enrollment books to (how accurate they are or were again open to debate) so theoretically you could check if and when a student enrolled (well assuming you can read japanese and the freehand script lol)

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Chinese wrestling may be the only CMA systems that use the ranking system in China. During the Ching dynasty, the San Pu Yin (emperor's wrestling team) had 200 Chinese wrestlers. Those wrestlers were offered ranking as:

- 1st degree Pu Hu (attacking tiger),
- 2nd degree Pu Hu (attacking tiger),
- 3rd degree Pu Hu (attacking tiger),

Different ranks received different salary.

 

[dvcochran]

Chinese wrestling may be the only CMA systems that use the ranking system in China. During the Ching dynasty, the San Pu Yin (emperor's wrestling team) had 200 Chinese wrestlers. Those wrestlers were offered ranking as:

- 1st degree Pu Hu (attacking tiger),
- 2nd degree Pu Hu (attacking tiger),
- 3rd degree Pu Hu (attacking tiger),

Different ranks received different salary.

Very cool.

 

[Deafdude#5]

All very interesting points of perspectives with some history thrown in.

To me a beginner starts with learning the basics. As we progress, we start to think that we are becoming more advanced until that day when you have an epiphany and start to see all the little details necessary to improve upon and realize that you are really just beginning.