whats the point of grappling arts?
- Thread starter senseiblackbelt
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D
Deleted member 34973
Guest
I never stated you shouldn't learn ground techniques. What I was referring to is a constant defense on the ground. If you are on the ground against multiple attackers, your chances of surviving are diminished
I believe that ground work is important, for getting off the ground and back onto your feet. But continuing the fight on the ground, in a real world scenario, is asinine. But, that thought is due to my own personal experiences.
D
Deleted member 34973
Guest
Really though...how many of you have actually been on the ground against multiple attackers, in a real world scenario?
Absolutely, I don't think anyone here would disagree with that. I practice and teach BJJ, which is probably the most ground-centric of all the grappling arts, and I teach my students that in a multiple attacker situation they should avoid going to the ground and work to get back to their feet if the fight does go to the ground.
That said, having a solid foundation in ground grappling skills offers your best chance of regaining your feet if you are taken down, whether it's by a single attacker or multiple attackers.
I taught Controlling and Defeating Multiple Attackers to Federal Law Enforcement officers and members of Violent Fugitive Arrest squads for thirteen years. Part of the courses dealt with being on the ground (obviously not by choice), what to do there, how to attack from there, how to defend from there and how to regain your feet from there, all the while keeping your side arm and radio secure, and sometimes, coming to the aid of a partner, or protecting a member of the public who was caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. (if you're wondering about the radio, it's your greatest weapon, it' calls the cavalry)
A working knowledge of ground fighting, it's positions, it's escapes and it's pitfalls were part of the overall training. Without that knowledge - officers were at far greater disadvantages in an already less than ideal tactical battle.
Any knowledge that you can learn will only make your own particular Martial Art and personal fighting ability that much stronger and safer.
A working knowledge of ground fighting, it's positions, it's escapes and it's pitfalls were part of the overall training. Without that knowledge - officers were at far greater disadvantages in an already less than ideal tactical battle.
Any knowledge that you can learn will only make your own particular Martial Art and personal fighting ability that much stronger and safer.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
okay. You answered your own question. Why train on The ground? Because "ground work is important."
D
Deleted member 34973
Guest
I didn't ask that question.
D
Deleted member 34973
Guest
I am curious, do you have any video demonstrations of these courses? Was the ground work geared towards multiple attackers while on the ground? Not being snide, I really am interested in the structure of the course you taught.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Not overtly but you have addressed your initial statement. You started by saying ground skills have no value and are now acknowledging that they do.
Jujutsuka
Yellow Belt
If you are extremely strong, you can
- pick up one guy,
- hold on his ankle,
- swing him like swinging a baseball bat, and
- knock down your opponent one after another.
Don't have clip for that yet.
Haha, I sure wish they would teach ME that trick in jujutsu class!
D
Deleted member 34973
Guest
Again...I stated against multiple attackers, while remaining on the ground, is not advisable and dangerous. Getting out and up and training for that is justified. One on one, it can be very effective(if you are on the ground) I changed my opinion when I was made aware of the fact, that some commenters were speaking of standing and grappling. Which I believe is effective. But, remaining on the ground or even being taken to the ground, when multiple assailants are attacking you, is asking for a quick trip to the emergency room.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Lack of ground skill is not very good against 1 person. So not only will you get beat up by multiple oponants you will also get beat up if there is only one guy.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
And the sky is blue. And the grass is green
You started off suggesting that learning ground fighting is useless against multiple attacjers. Now you acknowledge that learning ground d fighting is essential against multiple attackers if they choose to take you to the ground.
Ultimately you're deluded if you think that against multiple attackers, you will be skilled enough to choose the context of the altercation. This is dangerously ignorant. Without grappling trainjng, against multiple attackers you will be helpless unless you are competent with both standing and ground grappling.
D
Deleted member 34973
Guest
Are you so blinded by your ground system that you can't even read that I stated "if you stay ON the ground against multiple attackers is foolish" why are you deliberately ignoring that statement. Have you even ever been attacked by multiple assailants?
D
Deleted member 34973
Guest
What I stated is that it is useless to stay on the ground using grappling in a real world scenario and I will stand by that statement.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
And how do you avoid staying on the ground against multiple attackers?
In Chinese wrestling, there is a throw called "casting" that you use both hands to hold on both side of your opponent waist belt. You then spin him off the ground in circle like casting a fish net.
In the following clip, a 165 lb guy uses "casting" on a 240 lb guy. If his opponent is about his weight or lighter, he should be able to swing his opponent completely off the ground and in a circle.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Standing up is not really a magical bullet against multiple attackers by the way.
I mean you should never go to ground in a multiple fight because there is a slight chance you will last a bit longer.
Also never go to ground when fighting a grizzly bear. Because it will out weigh you.
As soon as they have numbers they have advantage. So going to ground is risk vs reward. If you are in some sort giant melee. Then you may take a guy down so you can put him out of the fight. Hitting a guy on the deck is better than hitting him standing. If you get caught on the deck then you are in the same sort of trouble.
I mean you should never go to ground in a multiple fight because there is a slight chance you will last a bit longer.
Also never go to ground when fighting a grizzly bear. Because it will out weigh you.
As soon as they have numbers they have advantage. So going to ground is risk vs reward. If you are in some sort giant melee. Then you may take a guy down so you can put him out of the fight. Hitting a guy on the deck is better than hitting him standing. If you get caught on the deck then you are in the same sort of trouble.
D
Deleted member 34973
Guest
There is no set way. The last time I was on the ground against multiple attackers...I was stabbed. How I got out of it, I stabbed them back.
How about you?
How many in this thread have actually even been in a real life and death scenerio?
Skullpunch
Green Belt
So is everything else other than knife fighting and/or 400 meter dash training.
Seriously, no amount of karate or anything else is going to make me feel particularly good about fighting multiple attackers. Although points of knowing how to fight on the ground in case you end up there against your will are valid, the bottom line is you need to simply avoid this situation at all costs and if you are unfortunate enough to find yourself in it either be prepared to run for your life or defend yourself in pragmatic ways (such as a weapon) that may require legal defense should you come out alive.
