Whats required to get that Black Belt?

[chrismay101]

Read this to day lets us know what you think.

This is roughly what was required to get a black belt with this one school!
Who thinks this is normal or over the top?

The grading is spread over 2 days.
Day 1: Start with a 12 mile run followed by a lack crossing/swim.
Next set of exercises 50 of each
then a run through of every belt grading.
2min session of people attacking while you block.

Day 2: Another 12 mile run then a run through of the 96 preset throws
the 50 exercises again.
and some sought of sparring session.
and if time anything else.

What I have down may be slightly wrong.

 

[Tames D]

Read this to day lets us know what you think.

This is roughly what was required to get a black belt with this one school!
Who thinks this is normal or over the top?

The grading is spread over 2 days.
Day 1: Start with a 12 mile run followed by a lack crossing/swim.
Next set of exercises 50 of each
then a run through of every belt grading.
2min session of people attacking while you block.

Day 2: Another 12 mile run then a run through of the 96 preset throws
the 50 exercises again.
and some sought of sparring session.
and if time anything else.

What I have down may be slightly wrong.

I know some great Martial Artists that wouldn't qualify for a black belt with this school just based on the running and swimming requirements.

 

[MJS]

Read this to day lets us know what you think.

This is roughly what was required to get a black belt with this one school!
Who thinks this is normal or over the top?

The grading is spread over 2 days.
Day 1: Start with a 12 mile run followed by a lack crossing/swim.
Next set of exercises 50 of each
then a run through of every belt grading.
2min session of people attacking while you block.

Day 2: Another 12 mile run then a run through of the 96 preset throws
the 50 exercises again.
and some sought of sparring session.
and if time anything else.

What I have down may be slightly wrong.

A 12 mile run?!?!?! Wow!! I have to say, that I'd most likely fail that. For my 1st degree, I did have to run, but it wasn't 12 mi. Usually a 1st degree test is the one that is the most physically demanding. Lots of exercise, basics, self defense, kata, and bag work, not to mention the sparring. Usually going through the old material is standard.

I'd have to say that the biggest thing I find a bit over board is the run. A mile, sure. 12..well, maybe if they had medics and oxygen waiting at the end.

 

[jks9199]

I've got a simple question...

WHY do quite a few schools or systems seem to put almost (and sometimes not almost) more emphasis on passing a PT test than demonstrating skill, whether through forms/kata, sparring, or other examinations?

I'm not suggesting that there should be no fitness requirement -- but I know of a couple of tests where the majority of the time involved in testing is spent doing PT tests, not evaluating skill. To me, if you're fit enough to pass sparring tests, and strenous tests of the basics -- you've shown you've got the appropriate fitness. The reality is that pushups, pull ups, runs, swims, and the like don't really go long ways towards measuring the fighting fitness of the candidate. I've seen guys who'd literally breeze through PT tests... but be out of gas by the end of the first round of a three 2-minute rounds fight. And I've seen people who couldn't do a 1/4 mile run easily who could fight without strain for hours. As I said -- I'm in favor of some basic PT standards. But when the "martial arts testing" spends more time and energy testing things from high school gym class... I think the balance has gone a bit off kilter.

 

[Sukerkin]

I quite agree with jks on this.

Skill and efficiency in the chosen art are what are being tested, not whether you'd make a good decathalete or not .

Of course I'm biased as I've laid down a bit of future-fuel-for-the-lean-times-to-come since I settled down three years ago but even when I was younger and qualified for my Lau Gar black sash I didn't have to go through that sort of rigamorole .

 

[KeeblerElf]

Wow, 12 miles is a lot and I used to run that about every two to three days and often ran more. Just running 12 miles can take months to work up to if you are in good shape, and that is focusing on just running. Now that I don't do that run all the time, I don't think I could do it anymore.

 

[stone_dragone]

At my instructor's school in PA, every practice includes a 2 mile conditioning run and what some would consider an obscene amount of jumping jacks, push ups, etc.

It always includes sparring at the end for about 20 min and in between -either kata, drills, self defense or grappling (Thursdays!).

Our testings include a 4 mile run for colored belt tests and an 8-10 mile run for shodan testings. The requirement is completion without quiting, not time-based. The theory is two fold...first is testing the student's physical fitness level (obvioius). The second one is geared toward the student's technique and ability to defend oneself. It is easy to have great form and defend yourself when you are fresh, but to have decent form and defend yourself when you are exhausted demonstrates a little more edge.

Also, all instructors are expected to be at the shodan tests (if they are in any way able) and are expected to participate in the run, jumping jacks, push ups, etc.

 

[MJS]

I've got a simple question...

WHY do quite a few schools or systems seem to put almost (and sometimes not almost) more emphasis on passing a PT test than demonstrating skill, whether through forms/kata, sparring, or other examinations?

I'm not suggesting that there should be no fitness requirement -- but I know of a couple of tests where the majority of the time involved in testing is spent doing PT tests, not evaluating skill. To me, if you're fit enough to pass sparring tests, and strenous tests of the basics -- you've shown you've got the appropriate fitness. The reality is that pushups, pull ups, runs, swims, and the like don't really go long ways towards measuring the fighting fitness of the candidate. I've seen guys who'd literally breeze through PT tests... but be out of gas by the end of the first round of a three 2-minute rounds fight. And I've seen people who couldn't do a 1/4 mile run easily who could fight without strain for hours. As I said -- I'm in favor of some basic PT standards. But when the "martial arts testing" spends more time and energy testing things from high school gym class... I think the balance has gone a bit off kilter.

For what its worth, I was told that the idea of all of the pre stuff was to tire the person prior to the actual test. The idea seems to be to push the person to see what the breaking point is. Sure, I could spar a few 2 or 3 min rounds after a light warm up, but run a mile before that, do 100 jumping jacks, push up and sit ups, I'm sure would effect me differently.

Right or wrong, this seems to be the norm at alot of schools. Then again, I've seen some other outrageous things aside from the PT, so anything is possible.

Mike

 

[Tames D]

For what its worth, I was told that the idea of all of the pre stuff was to tire the person prior to the actual test. The idea seems to be to push the person to see what the breaking point is. Sure, I could spar a few 2 or 3 min rounds after a light warm up, but run a mile before that, do 100 jumping jacks, push up and sit ups, I'm sure would effect me differently.

Right or wrong, this seems to be the norm at alot of schools. Then again, I've seen some other outrageous things aside from the PT, so anything is possible.

Mike

I've been in many fights right after finishing a Triatholon...:rofl:

 

[Tames D]

I've been in many fights right after finishing a Triatholon...:rofl:

Opps... wasn't slammin you Mike. Just making fun of the idea of bringing people to the breaking point for a test.

 

[MJS]

I've been in many fights right after finishing a Triatholon...:rofl:

Opps... wasn't slammin you Mike. Just making fun of the idea of bringing people to the breaking point for a test.

I probably woudln't put up much of a fight after a run like that.

 

[jks9199]

At my instructor's school in PA, every practice includes a 2 mile conditioning run and what some would consider an obscene amount of jumping jacks, push ups, etc.

It always includes sparring at the end for about 20 min and in between -either kata, drills, self defense or grappling (Thursdays!).

Our testings include a 4 mile run for colored belt tests and an 8-10 mile run for shodan testings. The requirement is completion without quiting, not time-based. The theory is two fold...first is testing the student's physical fitness level (obvioius). The second one is geared toward the student's technique and ability to defend oneself. It is easy to have great form and defend yourself when you are fresh, but to have decent form and defend yourself when you are exhausted demonstrates a little more edge.

Also, all instructors are expected to be at the shodan tests (if they are in any way able) and are expected to participate in the run, jumping jacks, push ups, etc.

And just how long is a single class?

I teach one class a week; I deliberately don't fill it with calisthenics and such. We warm up... and then we work on drills or techniques. I figure that students can run, pump iron, or whatever on their own time, and don't need to waste limited class time (1 to 2 hours plus a little sometimes, depending on age) on PT, as a general rule. Of course, some of the drills are conditioning exercises via lots and lots of repetition...

I figure that the exercise you describe must eat up an hour or more.

 

[stone_dragone]

Generally the classes run a little over 2 hours, 3 x a week (5:30-7:30pm Tue, Thu; 9:00-11-00am Sat). The warm up and calisthenics are, on average, 30-45 min but they lead right into stance work and kihon (basics).

The tests on the other hand (4/8-10 mile runs and such) run until completion. I have seen kyu tests run as long as 7 1/2 hours of constant activity...but that was a lot of people testing for all the ranks...and I've ssen them be done in as little as about 4 1/2 hours.

 

[kidswarrior]

Skill and efficiency in the chosen art are what are being tested, not whether you'd make a good decathalete or not .

Right on, Sukerkin.

Of course I'm biased as I've laid down a bit of future-fuel-for-the-lean-times-to-come since I settled down three years ago.

I call it my 'Retirement package.'

12 mile run, huh? Great training for those about to enter boot camp. Otherwise, just seems it would burn up a lot of time students could be learning/practicing/demonstrating MA. Overkill, anyone?verkill:

 

[kidswarrior]

I've been in many fights right after finishing a Triatholon...:rofl:

So that was you! Just kidding fellow San Sooist.

Can't see Jimmy Woo buying into this at all, nor taking more than 3-5 seconds to finish off however many fools might attack. :mst: And can you picture him winded afterwards? Just can't conjure up the image. :lol:

 

[Tames D]

So that was you! Just kidding fellow San Sooist.

Can't see Jimmy Woo buying into this at all, nor taking more than 3-5 seconds to finish off however many fools might attack. :mst: And can you picture him winded afterwards? Just can't conjure up the image. :lol:

Agreed. With Jimmy twas all about the fightin...lol.

 

[chrismay101]

When I read this I was quite suprised I couldn't see the point of the run well a 12 mile run.
I think a degree of fitness is right but is just over the top.

The reason the web site gave for this is - to many black belts are givern out so it takes at least 7 years before you can test for black belt and when you do it like doing an iron man contest!

I supose its down to what a 1st dan black belt means!
Is it that you have an understanding of all the moves but in away your still a begineer.
or is it that you are very good at your art and your skill goes beyond just knowing.

 

[Drac]

I've got a simple question...

WHY do quite a few schools or systems seem to put almost (and sometimes not almost) more emphasis on passing a PT test than demonstrating skill, whether through forms/kata, sparring, or other examinations?

Bravo, Well said..

 

[CuongNhuka]

I noticed there is no time requirement for the running. Maybe that is becasue it's more about seeing if you can endure, then anything else. In Cuong Nhu (way back when) for your 1 black stripe you had to do a mile in 12 minutes. For 2 black 1 mile in 10 minutes. For black belt 1 mile 7 minutes. The point was if you were acctuly in a fight, you would have stong enough legs to get away. Maybe that is also part of the point. Could it be a mile in 12 minutes, and you misread? I've done some research on hard core PT contests. No one in their right mind would run 12 miles 2 days in a row unless their in boot camp. You risk some pretty serious injury if you do it once, let alone 2 days in a row.

 

[chrismay101]

yep it is 12 miles

The thing he trying to get across (i think) is that martial arts should be about self deffence and none of this thing you see at demos with guys doing spining moves all over the place.

Yeah may be he's got a point. But I like to enjoy what im doing. What does this length run have to do with any thing?