what the hell kind of thinking is this

[MJS]

'But just because I think that way doesn't mean others have to as well.'
If you don't think that way you're wrong

Like those two guys who witnessed the girl in NY in trouble and didn't do anything but notify police. The fact that they called for help says they have a conscience and they did the right thing by doing that, but they should have done more. Nobody is asking for heroes but it is your 'duty' to do 'all that you can'. And I don't think they did all they could have and should have. I'll assume those guys 'froze' in fear.

Why, because someone trains in martial arts, does it mean that we have to be supermen and defend everyone? Hey, if someone chooses to get involved, thats fine but I don't think that anyone is required to. Simply calling for help, providing the police with a good description of whats happening, should be good enough.

Think about this...how many times during a domestic disturbance, do we often see the cops get attacked by the very same woman who was getting beat up by her husband? It happens. Suddenly, depsite her getting her *** kicked, now she loves the guy, doesnt wanna see him in jail, etc. Same thing here. We don't know who the people are, if there're weapons, etc.

I think that by always looking to get involved, that kind of hints at the person wanting to be a hero.

 

[fangjian]

Why, because someone trains in martial arts, does it mean that we have to be supermen and defend everyone? Hey, if someone chooses to get involved, thats fine but I don't think that anyone is required to. Simply calling for help, providing the police with a good description of whats happening, should be good enough.

Think about this...how many times during a domestic disturbance, do we often see the cops get attacked by the very same woman who was getting beat up by her husband? It happens. Suddenly, depsite her getting her *** kicked, now she loves the guy, doesnt wanna see him in jail, etc. Same thing here. We don't know who the people are, if there're weapons, etc.

I think that by always looking to get involved, that kind of hints at the person wanting to be a hero.

I think as a human being you should have a sense of duty to help other people when they need help.

"Simply calling for help, providing the police with a good description of whats happening, should be good enough. " - That's great if that is all you can/should do.

 

[MJS]

Nobody is asking for heroes

I think as a human being you should have a sense of duty to help other people when they need help.

"Simply calling for help, providing the police with a good description of whats happening, should be good enough. " - That's great if that is all you can/should do.

I think the first quote is a bit contradictory. If we really want to get technical about it, I don't have to help anyone. If I'm out driving and see a crash, I'm not obligated to call for help, although I have many times. I'm not obligated to help the old lady getting her purse taken. I'm not obligated to pursue the bank robber. The list can go on and on.

A quick story. I'm a dispatcher for a PD here in CT. I recall one night a woman called explaining that her and her husband were getting repeated phony calls from someone. Apparently, a few weeks before, a pizza was delivered to her house. She nor her husband did not place an order. Apparently this pissed off the delivery guy, so he crank called them repeatedly. Apparently her husband staked out the phone he was calling from, and proceeded to chase after him in his car. She was on a cell phone with him, and on the house phone with me, telling me what was happening, etc. Now, not only was this guy risking his life, but the lives of everyone else on the road...all because he was pissed at this delivery guy. Why not get a plate and let the cops deal with it?

The guy was caught and dealt with by the police. But, this husband was no better than the guy he was chasing. Instead, he wanted to play hero. What would he have done if he caught him? Kicked his ***?

My point of all this is....why put yourself in the middle when you don't have to? I guess you have a big red S on your chest, and again, thats fine. But to think that every should do the same isn't right.

I've taken calls of active fights, of a neighbors house being broken into. They stayed on the phone with me, giving me exact details of whats going on, descriptions of the people, any vehicles, etc. and the cops caught and arrested them. By your logic, the neighbor should have raced over to his neighbors and confronted the robbers.

Mike

 

[fangjian]

I think the first quote is a bit contradictory. If we really want to get technical about it, I don't have to help anyone. If I'm out driving and see a crash, I'm not obligated to call for help, although I have many times. I'm not obligated to help the old lady getting her purse taken. I'm not obligated to pursue the bank robber. The list can go on and on.

A quick story. I'm a dispatcher for a PD here in CT. I recall one night a woman called explaining that her and her husband were getting repeated phony calls from someone. Apparently, a few weeks before, a pizza was delivered to her house. She nor her husband did not place an order. Apparently this pissed off the delivery guy, so he crank called them repeatedly. Apparently her husband staked out the phone he was calling from, and proceeded to chase after him in his car. She was on a cell phone with him, and on the house phone with me, telling me what was happening, etc. Now, not only was this guy risking his life, but the lives of everyone else on the road...all because he was pissed at this delivery guy. Why not get a plate and let the cops deal with it?

The guy was caught and dealt with by the police. But, this husband was no better than the guy he was chasing. Instead, he wanted to play hero. What would he have done if he caught him? Kicked his ***?

My point of all this is....why put yourself in the middle when you don't have to? I guess you have a big red S on your chest, and again, thats fine. But to think that every should do the same isn't right.

I've taken calls of active fights, of a neighbors house being broken into. They stayed on the phone with me, giving me exact details of whats going on, descriptions of the people, any vehicles, etc. and the cops caught and arrested them. By your logic, the neighbor should have raced over to his neighbors and confronted the robbers.

Mike

I'm sorry can't seem to figure out how to 'multiquote'

Para 1. No technically you aren't obligated legally by law to help this person in an accident. But you helped them didn't you, because you feel you kinda' are obligated by different laws.

Para 2-3. Wow what an awful idea.

Para 4. A person should do what they can/should. I don't have an S on my chest. And if I did, it isn't ok.

Para. 5 By my logic he did what he can/should.

 

[MJS]

I'm sorry can't seem to figure out how to 'multiquote'

At the beginning of the paragraph you want to quote, use these [] with the word quote in the middle. At the end of the paragraph, do the same thing, but put a / before the word quote.

Para 1. No technically you aren't obligated legally by law to help this person in an accident. But you helped them didn't you, because you feel you kinda' are obligated by different laws.

I called, but didn't you say that we should do more? If I'm supposed to rush to the aid of the woman getting beaten, then I should've pulled over and administered first aid.

Para 2-3. Wow what an awful idea.

Yes, I agree.

Para 4. A person should do what they can/should. I don't have an S on my chest. And if I did, it isn't ok.

So calling should be enough. Anything else is optional.

Para. 5 By my logic he did what he can/should.[/quote]

But earlier you said that someone should intervien if they saw someone getting beaten. So if the neighbor saw the badguys leaving the house, the neighbor could have ran after them bnut chose not to.

Like I said, if someone wants to get physically involved, thats fine, more power to them. If someone wants to call the police, like I have many times, thats fine too. But I don't think that anyone should be obligated to get physically involved. Simply calling for aid should suffice.

 

[DavidCC]

In this country they are called Hippies.

Or Democrats.

Your choice.

Wow, pull your head out of Hannity's lap long enough to think a thought, will ya. Besides I'm sure he's pretty chafed by now.

are all Conservatives scar-covered biker rapists LOL

 

[fangjian]

I think the first quote is a bit contradictory. If we really want to get technical about it, I don't have to help anyone. If I'm out driving and see a crash, I'm not obligated to call for help, although I have many times. I'm not obligated to help the old lady getting her purse taken. I'm not obligated to pursue the bank robber. The list can go on and on.

A quick story. I'm a dispatcher for a PD here in CT. I recall one night a woman called explaining that her and her husband were getting repeated phony calls from someone. Apparently, a few weeks before, a pizza was delivered to her house. She nor her husband did not place an order. Apparently this pissed off the delivery guy, so he crank called them repeatedly. Apparently her husband staked out the phone he was calling from, and proceeded to chase after him in his car. She was on a cell phone with him, and on the house phone with me, telling me what was happening, etc. Now, not only was this guy risking his life, but the lives of everyone else on the road...all because he was pissed at this delivery guy. Why not get a plate and let the cops deal with it?

The guy was caught and dealt with by the police. But, this husband was no better than the guy he was chasing. Instead, he wanted to play hero. What would he have done if he caught him? Kicked his ***?

My point of all this is....why put yourself in the middle when you don't have to? I guess you have a big red S on your chest, and again, thats fine. But to think that every should do the same isn't right.

I've taken calls of active fights, of a neighbors house being broken into. They stayed on the phone with me, giving me exact details of whats going on, descriptions of the people, any vehicles, etc. and the cops caught and arrested them. By your logic, the neighbor should have raced over to his neighbors and confronted the robbers.

Mike

At the beginning of the paragraph you want to quote, use these [] with the word quote in the middle. At the end of the paragraph, do the same thing, but put a / before the word quote.

I hope this works

I called, but didn't you say that we should do more? If I'm supposed to rush to the aid of the woman getting beaten, then I should've pulled over and administered first aid.

(I'll reply to this and hope I read your post correctly)

I thought it was a car accident but I guess that is beside the point. So let's see......You see a woman that has been beaten and is lying on the ground....you call 911 for help....and then drive off? I don't think that is possibly what you meant because I think that would be unacceptable. Especially if you know 1st Aid. I would feel awful if I later found out that woman died while the ambulance was coming.



Yes, I agree.



So calling should be enough. Anything else is optional.

Para. 5 By my logic he did what he can/should.

But earlier you said that someone should intervien if they saw someone getting beaten. So if the neighbor saw the badguys leaving the house, the neighbor could have ran after them bnut chose not to.

That 1st sentence sounds very generalized(if someone saw someone) Yeah if I was gettin the crap kicked out of me I don't expect some 70 yr old woman to get physically involved. She shouldn't/can't.

Badguys running away from the scene? Why chase them? I don't understand why you're asking that.

Like I said, if someone wants to get physically involved, thats fine, more power to them. If someone wants to call the police, like I have many times, thats fine too. But I don't think that anyone should be obligated to get physically involved. Simply calling for aid should suffice.

[/quote]

Calling for aid is great, but sometimes you know that's not enough. Did you read or watch that subway rape story?

 

[fangjian]

Wow. I suck at multiquoting.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Wow. I suck at multiquoting.

It's a skill....

 

[MrE2Me2]

Ahem!

To pull back a bit and re-address this issue of not fighting from a slightly different perspective...

I have trained and taught the Martial Arts all my life (well...since I was nine anyway).

I currently have a student who is very much into academia. This learned Doctor is willing to train hard in Martial Arts. Yet when I ask him to demonstrate a strike or kick on me with a 'finishing move', he will inevitably choose a target that is not suitable (like the bicep or the collarbone).

1. I have asked him what he thinks the move would do and at first, he truly believed his attack would work. It took so convincing to show him otherwise.

2. I had a discussion a number of years ago with my stepdaughter's teacher over the issue of bullying. This teacher was firmly convinced that reason would stop a bully.

In the first instance, I was (and am) able to reach my student about what a realistic attack is; what it looks like, what it takes to stop one, etc.

In the second instance, I was not able to reach the teacher in question.

As a student of mine once said, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink it."

 

[sgtmac_46]

Ahem!

To pull back a bit and re-address this issue of not fighting from a slightly different perspective...

I have trained and taught the Martial Arts all my life (well...since I was nine anyway).

I currently have a student who is very much into academia. This learned Doctor is willing to train hard in Martial Arts. Yet when I ask him to demonstrate a strike or kick on me with a 'finishing move', he will inevitably choose a target that is not suitable (like the bicep or the collarbone).

1. I have asked him what he thinks the move would do and at first, he truly believed his attack would work. It took so convincing to show him otherwise.

2. I had a discussion a number of years ago with my stepdaughter's teacher over the issue of bullying. This teacher was firmly convinced that reason would stop a bully.

In the first instance, I was (and am) able to reach my student about what a realistic attack is; what it looks like, what it takes to stop one, etc.

In the second instance, I was not able to reach the teacher in question.

As a student of mine once said, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink it."

I wonder how she'd 'reason' her way out of this situation...... http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8b6_1236294679

 

[MrE2Me2]

You got me!

Even worse, another student from that same district committed suicide rather than continue to face bullying.

After his death, when his mother offered to talk to students (who were still complaining of bullying); she was flatly turned down.

I guess these people believe that 'De Nile' is just a river in Egypt...

 

[sgtmac_46]

You got me!

Even worse, another student from that same district committed suicide rather than continue to face bullying.

After his death, when his mother offered to talk to students (who were still complaining of bullying); she was flatly turned down.

I guess these people believe that 'De Nile' is just a river in Egypt...

True, that.

 

[Aiki Lee]

I wonder how she'd 'reason' her way out of this situation...... http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8b6_1236294679

At least the other kids on the bus were trying to pull him off and not just watching. But without training it looks like nobody really knows what to do. Isn't if frustrating to see a situation unfold like this and know that if you were there it would have turned out differently?

It makes me weep to see people that deranged and other people who want him to stop, but don't know what to do.

 

[fangjian]

At least the other kids on the bus were trying to pull him off and not just watching. But without training it looks like nobody really knows what to do. Isn't if frustrating to see a situation unfold like this and know that if you were there it would have turned out differently?

It makes me weep to see people that deranged and other people who want him to stop, but don't know what to do.

That is definately a time when you must get physically involved especially if you are able. If you aren't able, then you aren't able.

I know you would bust out you're Amakakeru Ryu No Hirameki in that situation

 

[MJS]

That 1st sentence sounds very generalized(if someone saw someone) Yeah if I was gettin the crap kicked out of me I don't expect some 70 yr old woman to get physically involved. She shouldn't/can't.

Badguys running away from the scene? Why chase them? I don't understand why you're asking that.

Calling for aid is great, but sometimes you know that's not enough. Did you read or watch that subway rape story?

Man, this was hard to read! LOL! Before I get into the post, I'll go over the quoting again. Use [] with quote between them at the beginning of the paragraph that you want to quote, with the same at the end, but a / before the word quote. Do this each time you want to quote a paragraph.

Back to what you said...your theory is that we should do more than just calling for help. My theory is that calling is all that we really need to do. You said to me that I'm not obligated to help by calling in the accident, but I did, so yes, I offered help. Going by what you've said in past posts, by your theory I should have done more, but in another post you said that calling was good enough. See the confusion?

I asked about the enighbors house getting broken into and chasing after the badguys. You thought that was crazy. Why? I mean, if you're going to sit here and say that someone should get involved with someone getting beat up, then why not chase after the bad guys?

For the record, I would not chase after them, no more than I would get involved in breaking up a fight between 2 people I don't know. But again, in one post you shun people for not getting involved and then think chasing after burglers is crazy. Are you reading what you're saying here dude?

As for stopping at an accident. First off, I am now putting my safety at risk because I'm entering a dangerous situation. I am not driving a police car with flashing lights, so I could get hit, my car could get hit, etc. 2nd, I don't know first aid, so I'm not going to bite off more than I can chew and play HERO. And I don't want some do-gooder, who wants to play HERO and try to help, and now I run the risk of being injured further by them playing HERO.

My calling for the police, fire dept, etc. is MORE than enough. PERIOD! Again, if you want to play tough guy and break up fights, if you want to play HERO and stop at an accident, more power to you. But again, please don't think that we all should do what YOU want to do. As I said, technically, I dont have to do anything, but I at least call.

 

[Marginal]

In this country they are called Hippies.

Or Democrats.

Your choice.

Hur hur hur.

Democrats are all Amish/Quakers now?

 

[Big Don]

Hur hur hur.

Democrats are all Amish/Quakers now?

You've never seen republicans protesting against the use of force, on those few occasions when a democrat president actually finds the will to order it.

 

[fangjian]

Man, this was hard to read! LOL! Before I get into the post, I'll go over the quoting again. Use [] with quote between them at the beginning of the paragraph that you want to quote, with the same at the end, but a / before the word quote. Do this each time you want to quote a paragraph.

I apologize. it was hard for me to read too. lol Hopefuly I get it right this time.

Back to what you said...your theory is that we should do more than just calling for help. My theory is that calling is all that we really need to do. You said to me that I'm not obligated to help by calling in the accident, but I did, so yes, I offered help. Going by what you've said in past posts, by your theory I should have done more, but in another post you said that calling was good enough. See the confusion?

There is no confusion. All I am saying is there are times when calling for help isn't enough. I think we have, like two different type of scenarios in our heads. Maybe in this car accident that you're thinking of it is late at night and it's on I-95 and it's really dangerous to stop in the dark etc. Maybe in my scenario it's daytime on a quite street, and I'm comfortable with stopping and comfortable with first aid(which is a good class BTW and you should consider taking it. At least for your loved ones sake)

I asked about the enighbors house getting broken into and chasing after the badguys. You thought that was crazy. Why? I mean, if you're going to sit here and say that someone should get involved with someone getting beat up, then why not chase after the bad guys?

Chasing after bad guys IS crazy. They're running away. Screw'em. Getting physically involved when it is appropriate is different from being a dumbass and chasing bankrobbers and stuff

For the record, I would not chase after them, no more than I would get involved in breaking up a fight between 2 people I don't know. But again, in one post you shun people for not getting involved and then think chasing after burglers is crazy. Are you reading what you're saying here dude?

Again, maybe the scenarios are different between us. Maybe you're thinking of a couple drunk college kids brawlin it out in some bar. No, I wouldn't break them up because I don't think that's worth my time. I remember seeing this Dateline episode and they had a little girl(actress) playing in a park by herself. Then, they'd have some guy(actor) who would begin to coerce her to go with him even though they are strangers. Just an experiment on seeing what bystanders would do. Only a small % got involved.

That's what I mean. Some people are just too reluctant to get involved. That little kid is worth my time because she can't fight for herself, unlike some moron in a bar. If calling the police is all I can do than that's fine but if the conditions are good to get verbally involved than I will. If the conditions are right to get phyically involved than I will.

As for stopping at an accident. First off, I am now putting my safety at risk because I'm entering a dangerous situation. I am not driving a police car with flashing lights, so I could get hit, my car could get hit, etc. 2nd, I don't know first aid, so I'm not going to bite off more than I can chew and play HERO. And I don't want some do-gooder, who wants to play HERO and try to help, and now I run the risk of being injured further by them playing HERO.

My calling for the police, fire dept, etc. is MORE than enough. PERIOD! Again, if you want to play tough guy and break up fights, if you want to play HERO and stop at an accident, more power to you. But again, please don't think that we all should do what YOU want to do. As I said, technically, I dont have to do anything, but I at least call.

The scenarios going through my head have nothing to do with playing hero. I remember stopping at an accident last year. This elderly gentlemen crossed the median and struck a car. I dialed 911 and stopped to see if I could help before aid showed up. It was impossible to apply first aid cause he was still in the vehicle and it was slightly crushed in. I just told him that help was coming and I'd stay until they got there. Just to let him know he wasn't alone. He was very scared and I think that by just hangin out with him for a few minutes was comforting.
You know what I mean?

 

[sgtmac_46]

Wow, pull your head out of Hannity's lap long enough to think a thought, will ya. Besides I'm sure he's pretty chafed by now.

are all Conservatives scar-covered biker rapists LOL

'Scar-covered biker rapists?' I didn't realize that 'Scar-covered biker rapists' was considered a Conservative stereotype......:toilclaw:

Come on, man, if you're going to come up with an analogy to the 'Hippy' post, make it one that makes sense! Like.....'Bible Thumping Jesus Freak'.......or 'Uptight insurance salesmen'......but 'Scar-covered biker rapists'?! What dark hole did you pull that out of? :lfao: