I don't know anything about Pasaryu, but this is a very inaccurate description of how the style and name Shotokan evolved. From the Wikipedia entry:
What style name would I use?
- Thread starter TheArtofDave
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I don't know anything about Pasaryu, but this is a very inaccurate description of how the style and name Shotokan evolved. From the Wikipedia entry:
Aiki Lee
Master of Arts
To be fair, unless you know this person outside of the forum I'll bet you don't know the extent of his training. He could have trained without earning rank for years. Unlikely as that is, it is possible.
I would recomend calling your style whatever the base art you build it off is called. So if your mostly shotokan, call it shotokan, but tell people that you are mixing in other elements as well and your style is not "pure" shotokan or pasaryu or whatever.
JadecloudAlchemist
Master of Arts
Kenshin hit on something that is important.
If you are going to create your own style be honest about it.
Do not make up some strange bogus history.
You may get by on something as Okami Goshinjutsu(meaning Wolf self defense) Better hurry I might just copy right that one!!
If you are going to create your own style be honest about it.
Do not make up some strange bogus history.
You may get by on something as Okami Goshinjutsu(meaning Wolf self defense) Better hurry I might just copy right that one!!
I wouldn't worry too much about a name. Just train and enjoy your progress. Thinking about starting a new 'style' is not really beneficial to yourself or anyone else IMO. As others have said, use the primary art as the advertising and be honest about the amalgamation within. You could just go down the 'Way of the Open Mind' or '12 Gates Martail Arts Club' or some such, but Mr Lee didn't name his project an 'art', it was a 'concept', and I think that is an important aspect in this whole ideal.
Good luck with your training and I hope whatever you decide to do, it works out for you.
Kind regards
John
Good luck with your training and I hope whatever you decide to do, it works out for you.
Kind regards
John
It appears to be a creation of Kang Rhee. His site describes it as a synthesis of karate, (some style of) kung fu, and tang soo do. Here's the link.
http://www.kangrhee.com/pasaryu.html
I'm not sure what he would have taken from Taekwondo. It indicates a date of 1964 when he came up with this, so 'taekwondo' at that time would have still been pretty much shotokan, maybe with different forms(?) and Korean terminology, but more than likely would have been Tang Soo Do, which is, from what I have seen and read, pretty much Shotokan with Korean terminology, particularly at that time.
I'm no TSD authority, so if I've mischaracterized something regarding TSD, I do apologize.
Honestly, I'm very leary of anything claiming to combine a specific art with 'Kung fu'. Its like saying you're combining Taekwondo with martial arts. This description is definitely geared to the ignorant with regards to martial arts.
Unless you're communicating with him outside of this thread, there isn't any indication that he is going to get rid of dead weight, but rather keep what he likes and what he doesn't. And someone's arbitrary dislike of something doesn't always make it dead weight.
Unfortunately, just reading the post, there is no indication that he has any background or qualifications to attempt this. It looks like he has a car, wants to go to two cool places, learn what they've got and mix the two, but hasn't taken a single class and wants to name a new art.
For all you know, he may inadvertantly end up keeping all the dead weight and get rid of the teeth of both systems. Plenty of people come up with "new" arts, bestow rank upon themselves, and when the fruit of their labor is tested, it winds up being just a watered down and/or cluttered up version of something else.
Hey, maybe he really wants to streamline, but you really need to know your stuff before you start taking existing arts and monkeying with them, particularly when one of the arts in question is already a concotion of three arts. Given that he says he's getting ready to graduate (presumably high school or college) it seems unlikely that he has the background for this.
Which brings me to Dave....
Dave, here are a few questions for you:
Have you had any training in either of these arts? And if not, what is your base art?
Why do you want to combine the two? Aside from taekgeuks and very stylized sparring, and a few flashy kicks,modern taekwondo contributes absolutely nothing in terms of substantive content to Shotokan. It would make more sense to blend a style of Kung Fu with Shotokan and bypass someone else's hybrid altogether.
Regarding name, Shotokan simply means 'Hall of Shoto', Shoto being Funakoshi's pen name. It is logical to assume that shotokan Ryu is the base style, which is would almost have to be, since Pasaryu (Way of honor is what the site says, though I've never heard 'ryu' translated as way) already contains Shotokan.
In a Japanese context, the correct way would be to call it 'Dave-ha-Shotokan-ryu', as it sounds like you'll still be doing essentially Shotokan.
Or you could just call it Dave-kwon-do.
Daniel
Funokashi never named the art so far as I know. He taught a synthesis of Shorin ryu and Shorei ryu, but just called his art, 'Karate' with no specific name. Probably his most radical change was the Japanizing of karate by adopting the Kyu/Dan system, complete with its belts and the keikogi. He did whatever one did at that time to be 'officially' recognized by the Japanese government.
Daniel
Shinobi Teikiatsu
Green Belt
A wise man once said "There are no new punches under the sun."
Are you really creating a new art or just giving existing arts a new name?
More importantly, are you really thinking of advertising this art, or making it more of a personal one that you and you alone will practice? For example, I study taijutsu and have been for several years. If you watch me in a fight, you'll see that I move differently and use different techniques than my fellow students, or even my teacher. Does this mean that I'm using a different art entirely, or using the existing art in a way that benefits me? The thing about martial arts, and the reason there's so many different styles, is because there are so many different people out there, with different body compositions, personalities, and intents in a fight. You need to think, is your style really going to be marketable, or something only you and people like you can use?
Are you really creating a new art or just giving existing arts a new name?
More importantly, are you really thinking of advertising this art, or making it more of a personal one that you and you alone will practice? For example, I study taijutsu and have been for several years. If you watch me in a fight, you'll see that I move differently and use different techniques than my fellow students, or even my teacher. Does this mean that I'm using a different art entirely, or using the existing art in a way that benefits me? The thing about martial arts, and the reason there's so many different styles, is because there are so many different people out there, with different body compositions, personalities, and intents in a fight. You need to think, is your style really going to be marketable, or something only you and people like you can use?
myusername
Brown Belt
I'd say it's blue sky thinking! There is nothing wrong with having a long term goal that is percieved by others to be "out there" as the actual process of trying to attain it can open a person up to many positive beneficial experiences.
For example if I were to suddenly announce at the age of 29 that I wanted to become an astronaut people might quite rightly scoff. But if I were serious I would then look at what I needed to become an astronaut. I imagine I would have to redo some of my education as I did quite poorly at maths!, I imagine I would then have to go to university and study sciences or engineering, I imagine I might need to take up flying lessons, I imagine I might have to ensure I maintain a high level of fitness.
At any point in this journey I may very well realise that I am never going to actually become an astronaut! But if I had done any of those things to try and achieve that goal I would have gained something and be better for it, even if it is just having a better grade in maths and increased fitness.
People go in to martial arts for all sorts of reasons and people have their own personal long term goals. Some want fitness, some want self defence, some want sport, some want all three. Part of Dave's motivation is to be the creator of his own hybrid art. If after studying for years in Shotokan Dave changes his goal he still would have the benefit of studying for years in Shotokan. Alternatively Dave might actually still merge the two arts together based on a more sound understanding. Who knows? but I personally don't see anything wrong with a little bit of blue sky thinking!
For example if I were to suddenly announce at the age of 29 that I wanted to become an astronaut people might quite rightly scoff. But if I were serious I would then look at what I needed to become an astronaut. I imagine I would have to redo some of my education as I did quite poorly at maths!, I imagine I would then have to go to university and study sciences or engineering, I imagine I might need to take up flying lessons, I imagine I might have to ensure I maintain a high level of fitness.
At any point in this journey I may very well realise that I am never going to actually become an astronaut! But if I had done any of those things to try and achieve that goal I would have gained something and be better for it, even if it is just having a better grade in maths and increased fitness.
People go in to martial arts for all sorts of reasons and people have their own personal long term goals. Some want fitness, some want self defence, some want sport, some want all three. Part of Dave's motivation is to be the creator of his own hybrid art. If after studying for years in Shotokan Dave changes his goal he still would have the benefit of studying for years in Shotokan. Alternatively Dave might actually still merge the two arts together based on a more sound understanding. Who knows? but I personally don't see anything wrong with a little bit of blue sky thinking!
Sylo
Purple Belt
I'd say it's blue sky thinking! There is nothing wrong with having a long term goal that is percieved by others to be "out there" as the actual process of trying to attain it can open a person up to many positive beneficial experiences.
For example if I were to suddenly announce at the age of 29 that I wanted to become an astronaut people might quite rightly scoff. But if I were serious I would then look at what I needed to become an astronaut. I imagine I would have to redo some of my education as I did quite poorly at maths!, I imagine I would then have to go to university and study sciences or engineering, I imagine I might need to take up flying lessons, I imagine I might have to ensure I maintain a high level of fitness.
At any point in this journey I may very well realise that I am never going to actually become an astronaut! But if I had done any of those things to try and achieve that goal I would have gained something and be better for it, even if it is just having a better grade in maths and increased fitness.
People go in to martial arts for all sorts of reasons and people have their own personal long term goals. Some want fitness, some want self defence, some want sport, some want all three. Part of Dave's motivation is to be the creator of his own hybrid art. If after studying for years in Shotokan Dave changes his goal he still would have the benefit of studying for years in Shotokan. Alternatively Dave might actually still merge the two arts together based on a more sound understanding. Who knows? but I personally don't see anything wrong with a little bit of blue sky thinking!
Yeah, I agree with this thinking. But on the same token, this is an internet forum. Many of us have never met nor seen in person many of the people who post here. We don't know their backgrounds in anything. What I think most people are looking for from Dave is some indication of his background in martial arts. Something like what he is planning on undertaking, is not impossible but highly irregular for someone who "seemingly" looks to be just getting his feet wet in martial arts in general.. just judging by his posts.
I'm all about dreaming big. I want to open a school in the next couple of years, and I'm only a lowly red belt. So its BIG undertaking to even be thinking about right now. However, what I haven't done is "put the cart before the horse". I have the idea, but I haven't acted on it yet. Instead I'm researching on my own to devise the "how" "when" and "where" and "why" factors.
It would be like me coming here and saying "Hey guys, I'm opening my own school what should I name it?". First off, noone but you can decide that. Two, I'm just red belt.. so why would I be thinking about opening a school? I don't even know if I have the ability to teach yet.
Simply put, most people can't read between the lines on a message board. They reply to what has been asked. Dave wants to know what he should name a style that he will be creating out of 2 arts he (according to the way he has written his post) has no experience in.
I think he's getting honest and respectable answers considering the question and how it was asked. Come back in about 10 years, and I think he will get a different answer. Granted he has the knowledge and background in said arts to be able to provide information.
dancingalone
Grandmaster
Just my opinion, but if one is ready to "create" a martial art, then one likely would know himself what best to call his art, instead of seeking guidance from the unwashed masses on the Internet.
I may be many things, but unwashed is most defintely not one of them, I'll have you know! I even wash and press my uniforms after each and every class!
Daniel
Daniel
dancingalone
Grandmaster
You press your uniforms? I just let my white uniforms sundry on some of the wooden railings on my deck. The sunlight and heat seem to take most of the wrinkles out.
Yes, I actually press my uniforms. My dobok/gi sleeves and pant legs have a sharp crease in the center.
Daniel
Daniel
dancingalone
Grandmaster
Cool. I bet you look sharp in class. I'm afraid my teacher would clout me on the head with a tonfa if I ironed my uniform. "Gi for practice not impress girls" (said with a heavy Asian accent as he frowns at me from his lofty height of 5'3'').
:angel:
Aiki Lee
Master of Arts
And there in lies what I believe to be what most "founders" tend to do in the modern age. I think the only way one can create a new martial art is simply by blending concepts of martial arts together that have previously not been combined (to the knowlege of the new "founder" of course)
This is kind of how Mr. Maienza of the Jizaikan "created" aiki ninjutsu. He took the power and unconventional thinking of the takamatsu teachings, and combined them with the adaptability and harmonious movements of the aiki jujutsu schools. He didn't "create" the techniques, kata, principles, secrets, and any of the actual methods. The art was "created" through his teaching methods that bind them all together in a way that in my opinion had not been done before.
Nor the other guy who said that the OP was doing the MA world a service by dumping the dead weight.
Daniel
