What makes people believe absurd conspiracy theories?

[JowGaWolf]

Sadly, I am very concerned we are headed towards another world war in our lifetime.

When you start thinking like this then you should take a look at previous World wars. First determine what it actually takes to have one. Then see if there is anything that meets those requirements. Don't follow what other's say when you do this. These are things you should be able point out and verify on your own using other resources outside of the main one you use.

This new regime in the US is scary as hell and it hasn’t even been a week.

What are you scared of? Vaccinations?

 

[JowGaWolf]

i dont disagree, but i dont want the thread shutting down by straying into contempary history,

I agree with this part.

i have a really bad feeling that society has changed for the worse over the last few months ,

Not sure what bothers you. We still have COVID-19 and it's behaving exactly like I thought it would. Maybe your original view was too optimistic?

 

[dvcochran]

You would be correct on all points here. I myself don't like the term manipulation and when I talk about it, I have to first remind myself not think of it as something as good or bad. There's a lot stuff about manipulation that is hard to stomach. It's like medicine. You know the validity of it, but it's still going to taste like crap.lol.

To speak from personal experience is common. We all experience this world directly or indirectly. The amount of exposure we have and from which side of that exposure will play a large role in how we understand things.

We all have perspective even though they may seem similar in some areas it doesn't make it the same. 5555555555 is not the same as 5555555554. No matter how similar it may be in some areas it is still not the same in another.

In terms of calling the kettle black that will depend on what part. If you are talking about Manipulation, then I'm not calling the kettle black. No one can live on this planet without manipulating someone in one direction or the other. If you have kids, then you know you do it often, but probably don't refer to it as manipulation because it comes with that negative imagery.

If you are talking about me soaking my brain in only one perspective. I don't do that. You may have heard me say many times that I always try to keep balance. So if I find myself not willing to listen to other perspective or at the very minimum hear other perspectives then I know that at that point I'm not in balance. I'm a news junkie but when I feel like I'm hearing the same thing over and over on a perspective, then I will turn the news off and not watch it for a few weeks. It doesn't matter which news channel does this. That's just me.

I have discovered that my mind is more steady when I know which perspectives are out there. I don't need to know all of them. I just need to nor more than my own and I can't personally define those other perspectives. So for me. I will ask you about your perspective vs trying to tell you how you are without first asking you to share your perspective.

Actually I haven't said anything much about what is true and what isn't true. I pretty much left it open for others to make their own assumptions about what I stated. I could be wrong, but I don't think I mentioned the word true or truth in anywhere.
I was already aware of the behavior of people who lie and which type of people use this strategy of lying and brain washing. Dictators, Cult Leaders, Parents, Marketers, Politicians. This is why I always have to get into the correct mindset when talking about Manipulation

Everything we know is not in a state of flux. I will be a black American regardless if I wake up tomorrow or not. I could wake up dismembered and that would never change that truth. You have to look at the context of which I made my statement about radiation. It doesn't apply to everything. It just applies to somethings, specifically about the topic or radiation as there has been a history of humans not fully understanding radiation. There are a lot of things that I wouldn't apply that line of thinking to.

The problem with applying it to everything is that it also applies to what you think will be true. That means that what you think is untrue today will eventually proven true. But apply that same rule again, and the truth of that comes tomorrow will also be proven untrue. If you continue that cycle then nothing is true because the future will ultimately prove that it's untrue.

I believe this as well. The fact that we are communicating the way that we are speaks volumes.

Not sure if that's my argument. If I were to make an argument along the lines of that it would be "History Repeats itself." "All life is a pattern and by understanding the pattern, we can understand the things to come." We watch Jobo prey upon patterns all the time. We usually refer to it as "stirring the pot" or "pushing buttons" but it's nothing but pattern recognition. Jobo recognizes the patters and behaviors and then exploits them. Which is again Manipulation.

yeah that's Jobo in Manipulation mode with that coversation We were originally talking about radiation and test subjects to see how long cancer would grow. to Physics and Quantum theories and scientist who are the smartest that the world has ever seen. While totally ignoring the fact that science has created things and accomplish things that scientist in the past were unable to do. I just didn't feel like getting into with Jobo on that today. Then I'm called a scientist of Google. not sure what that mean. Nothing wrong with looking up names. None of that changed my perception that the scientist of today are more knowledgeable than those of the past, evident by how many things exist today that didn't exist in 1938. So naming someone who is "better" just doesn't matter.

Well said.

I HATE when people seem to have the idea that history repeats itself engrained into every facet of life. While I know it has been true on many occasions it is such a restrictive and confining mindset to me.

I had forgotten that you are a black man. So let me ask you this; I am a white guy, you are a black guy. Why does either fact mean anything at all? If you feel that it does then you are refusing to leave history where it should be, in the past. Remember it, study it? Sure. Learn from it? Absolutely! Repeat it? Only in the positives. This is a personal decision afforded by the freedoms of our country. That can be as good (or bad) as we choose it to be.
I have said this many times before; I don’t even recognize a person’s color unless there is a reason to. Do your job and treat me fairly and we are good. Act like a fool or a POS and again, color doesn’t matter.

I did mean to get off on a tangent. I very much align with your thinking in this thread.

I am typing this from my phone and realized it was somewhat annoying typing ‘color’ so many times.

 

[jobo]

When you start thinking like this then you should take a look at previous World wars. First determine what it actually takes to have one. Then see if there is anything that meets those requirements. Don't follow what other's say when you do this. These are things you should be able point out and verify on your own using other resources outside of the main one you use.


What are you scared of? Vaccinations?

what the last three world wars( yes there have been three) required was for a combination of britain, france, the germans and russia to fall out about things, like who rules the world. then for either the spanish, the japanise or the american to join in

its not at all unlikley that we will fall out with france in the very near future, but im not seeing a war comning out of it.


the possibility for america, china and russia to fall out about who rules the world seems almost endless, china has been testing the american resolve against taking Taiwan back only today or yesterday now

 

[dvcochran]

When you start thinking like this then you should take a look at previous World wars. First determine what it actually takes to have one. Then see if there is anything that meets those requirements. Don't follow what other's say when you do this. These are things you should be able point out and verify on your own using other resources outside of the main one you use.


What are you scared of? Vaccinations?

I have studied the wars quite a lot. Strategy is kind of my jam.
When I hear Mitt Romney compare the last administration to the time after Lincoln I shutter and just have to scratch my head. We had such a fresh breath of non-political and record breaking leadership it is shocking how fast politicians are jockeying to figure out where the lay in the new landscape. How are people not alarmed at what has already happened? Relations with and around foreign countries have already changed. How it that not indicative?

 

[dvcochran]

what the last three world wars( yes there have been three) required was for a combination of britain, france, the germans and russia to fall out about things, like who rules the world. then for either the spanish, the japanise or the american to join in

its not at all unlikley that we will fall out with france in the very near future, but im not seeing a war comning out of it.


the possibility for america, china and russia to fall out about who rules the world seems almost endless, china has been testing the american resolve against taking Taiwan back only today or yesterday now

You are not factoring in how much world power has shifted to the east/middle east.

 

[Anarax]

What makes people believe absurd conspiracy theories? Are they stupid or just naïve? Mentally ill? Or are people just easily manipulated and controlled by others?

For example QAnon is a disproven and discredited far-right conspiracy theory alleging that a cabal of Satan-worshipping cannibalistic pedophiles is running a global child sex-trafficking ring and plotting against (former) U.S. president Donald Trump, who is fighting the cabal.

So what would make someone believe this crazy ****? Or things like Alien Abductions or that the world is actually flat not round.

Conspiracy theories exist all over the spectrum, but there are plenty that are completely unfounded. The two biggest dynamics in play with the unfounded ones are ignorance and confirmation bias.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I had forgotten that you are a black man. So let me ask you this; I am a white guy, you are a black guy. Why does either fact mean anything at all?

Because it matters to other people who may think or believe differently than you. For example. If it doesn't matter to you and it doesn't matter to me. Then in the context of you and me, it doesn't matter. But If we bring a 3rd person who thinks differently, and that person says. I get 3 meals a day because I'm black and you get 1 means a day because you are white, then it matters because the 3rd person has made it matter.

So any perception of one's existence that affects you in a positive way or a negative way matters in the context of how people see your existence. This doesn't apply just to race, it also applies to gender, financial rank, society rank, tribe, etc. This has been case for thousands of year.

When I say History repeats itself, it is often referring to the behaviors that lead to the same or similar actions that were done in the past. If we take a look at human behavior across the centuries we see that we still behave in many of the same ways as our ancestors. If you accept that this true then you can identify patterns that may trigger similar responses.

This is a personal decision afforded by the freedoms of our country. That can be as good (or bad) as we choose it to be.

There are some things that you can choose and some things that you cannot choose. This is also shown consistently of in history. While the US. was building "their freedoms" the freedoms of others were taken away. I'm pretty sure that Native Americans didn't choose to lose their lands. No effort was made to include Native Americans as equals. So I'm sure that wasn't something that was done by the choice of Native Americans. It wasn't a "personal decision for them." In reality I cannot champion freedom if I do not champion the freedom of others. I definitely cannot champion it, if I think my freedom is more significant the the freedom of others. If freedoms apply to one group but not another then it's not real freedom. You can see this theme in history in various parts of the world too. Caste systems and Tribal systems come to mind when everyone is of the same skin color.

I don’t even recognize a person’s color unless there is a reason to.

Statement's like this put you at the risk for only recognizing someone's color when there is something bad. Hence the term "reason to." I always recognize a person's color because that's part of who they are. What I don't do is allow skin color decide if that person is friend or enemy. There's nothing wrong with you recognizing me as a black American or black person, or Afro-American. pick the one that's easier for you. Walk around and say that you chat with this black guy all the time. That's fine too. There's no problem with that. As long as you don't feel that you NEED to say it or point it out. But I would rather that you see me and my differences than to think that non exist. It's ok for us to be different. My whole family is different. Embrace that about people and don't think that there "has to be a reason" to see skin color.

Just don't let skin color be the deciding factor on how you treat people. The benefit or recognizing skin color is that when people ignorantly claim that "White people do this" black people are like that." you can step up and defend your friend who doesn't look like you and tell that person who made the ignorant statement that they are wrong about their assumptions.

It's also ok if my race doesn't come up to mind when you respond. I come on here nor dwell on what race other people are. I see it. But that's the extent of it. But I don't look at people doing kung fu and say, oh that person is white or oh that person is black. I don't actively point that out to myself. I know that this isn't everyone. But for me, I personally take pride that most of my friends aren't black. If I were to count all of my friends then there would be a good mixture of people. But again that's just me enjoying the differences of others.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I did mean to get off on a tangent.

Your fine . I don't have any negative impressions towards you. I feel good that you can be open about thing like that.

 

[JowGaWolf]

what the last three world wars( yes there have been three) required was for a combination of britain, france, the germans and russia to fall out about things, like who rules the world. then for either the spanish, the japanise or the american to join in

its not at all unlikley that we will fall out with france in the very near future, but im not seeing a war comning out of it.


the possibility for america, china and russia to fall out about who rules the world seems almost endless, china has been testing the american resolve against taking Taiwan back only today or yesterday now

I think China treasures there economic growth too much to get into a major War with multiple countries going at each other. Their gain on the global scale was not as a result of trying to have a war with the world. They have succeed where Russian and Germany have failed in the past. They were able to gain more global influence and that Russia has and more than what Germany and Japan were able to get out of WWII.

Their best interest is to preserve what allowed them to have such large economic gains and continue to gain in global power by continuing to stay on the same path that has allowed their country to make the gains that it has made.

China and the US will bark at each other. Both will try to reduce each other's global partnership. If anything, I would watch to see how the Russia China relationship continues to partner on Economic issues.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Relations with and around foreign countries have already changed. How it that not indicative?

I would watch this more than anything else. Specifically our relationships with countries who are our allies. There's some repair that is needed and it's going to take a long time to make those repairs. Economic wise, it's a bad time to be an isolationist country. Relationships are everything. If you gotta kick some Martial Arts butt, in a multiple attack scenario then it's better to have friends to help you out, than to go it alone. This applies in all aspects not just war.

 

[dvcochran]

Because it matters to other people who may think or believe differently than you. For example. If it doesn't matter to you and it doesn't matter to me. Then in the context of you and me, it doesn't matter. But If we bring a 3rd person who thinks differently, and that person says. I get 3 meals a day because I'm black and you get 1 means a day because you are white, then it matters because the 3rd person has made it matter.

So any perception of one's existence that affects you in a positive way or a negative way matters in the context of how people see your existence. This doesn't apply just to race, it also applies to gender, financial rank, society rank, tribe, etc. This has been case for thousands of year.

When I say History repeats itself, it is often referring to the behaviors that lead to the same or similar actions that were done in the past. If we take a look at human behavior across the centuries we see that we still behave in many of the same ways as our ancestors. If you accept that this true then you can identify patterns that may trigger similar responses.

There are some things that you can choose and some things that you cannot choose. This is also shown consistently of in history. While the US. was building "their freedoms" the freedoms of others were taken away. I'm pretty sure that Native Americans didn't choose to lose their lands. No effort was made to include Native Americans as equals. So I'm sure that wasn't something that was done by the choice of Native Americans. It wasn't a "personal decision for them." In reality I cannot champion freedom if I do not champion the freedom of others. I definitely cannot champion it, if I think my freedom is more significant the the freedom of others. If freedoms apply to one group but not another then it's not real freedom. You can see this theme in history in various parts of the world too. Caste systems and Tribal systems come to mind when everyone is of the same skin color.

It is the comments in these two sections that stand out to me when I talk about living and being affected by the past. A comparison like the one you make in the first paragraph is just irrational to me. I get the point you are making but it just seems like a poor and very outdated example to use. It does not exist in our US society. I am VERY thankful for that and imminently aware of the implications. We have done missions trips all over the world and the conditions I have seen people living in have broken my heart many times.
Do I feel bad for what happened to Native Americans and African Americans? Absolutely. Do I (me directly) feel responsible for it? Absolutely not. We are all equally yoked today. Lead, follow, or get out of the way. I hope that does not come across wrong or cross.
I do not feel either of us really understand what is like to live in a country like Ukraine or Russia. That is the point I was trying to make about our freedom's afforded. It includes everyone today.

Statement's like this put you at the risk for only recognizing someone's color when there is something bad. Hence the term "reason to." I always recognize a person's color because that's part of who they are. What I don't do is allow skin color decide if that person is friend or enemy. There's nothing wrong with you recognizing me as a black American or black person, or Afro-American. pick the one that's easier for you. Walk around and say that you chat with this black guy all the time. That's fine too. There's no problem with that. As long as you don't feel that you NEED to say it or point it out. But I would rather that you see me and my differences than to think that non exist. It's ok for us to be different. My whole family is different. Embrace that about people and don't think that there "has to be a reason" to see skin color.

Just don't let skin color be the deciding factor on how you treat people. The benefit or recognizing skin color is that when people ignorantly claim that "White people do this" black people are like that." you can step up and defend your friend who doesn't look like you and tell that person who made the ignorant statement that they are wrong about their assumptions.

It's also ok if my race doesn't come up to mind when you respond. I come on here nor dwell on what race other people are. I see it. But that's the extent of it. But I don't look at people doing kung fu and say, oh that person is white or oh that person is black. I don't actively point that out to myself. I know that this isn't everyone. But for me, I personally take pride that most of my friends aren't black. If I were to count all of my friends then there would be a good mixture of people. But again that's just me enjoying the differences of others.

I am not surprised by the response, try as I may to prevent it. Believe me when I say my family is a rather strange mixed bag. See, I truly do not think in the vein you mention until it comes up. My "reason to" reference was more along the lines of "look for the tall black guy wearing the red shirt". I seems futile trying to defend or prove that position when it seems at every corner there is someone who refuses to let the past go. I live in redneck USA and I know both sides are living large. Why is it wrong for me to say I refuse to let it affect my sphere.

Want to say it Loudly again; I give 2 sxxts what color you are. Just do your job.
I think we see eye to eye.

 

[dvcochran]

I would watch this more than anything else. Specifically our relationships with countries who are our allies. There's some repair that is needed and it's going to take a long time to make those repairs. Economic wise, it's a bad time to be an isolationist country. Relationships are everything. If you gotta kick some Martial Arts butt, in a multiple attack scenario then it's better to have friends to help you out, than to go it alone. This applies in all aspects not just war.

Agree. So why are we disrupting relations with our neighbor to the North? Makes no sense at all. Putting all the economics aside, having access to resources is really what wins wars in the end.

 

[dvcochran]

Bye the bye, I appreciate the banter. I need the distraction.

 

[Steve]

What do we know about conspiracy theories?

A Game Designer’s Analysis Of QAnon

Couple of interesting articles I've read recently that tackle the same points from different directions. I think the idea of guided apophenia is very interesting.

 

[Steve]

What do you do when a flat earther leans over to you, gives you a knowing look and says, "Conspiracy theories. What kind of person falls for those? Am I right?". That's what discussions like this with people who think covid 19 is a hoax is like. I'm honestly not sure how to process that.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Do I feel bad for what happened to Native Americans and African Americans? Absolutely. Do I (me directly) feel responsible for it? Absolutely not

You shouldn't feel responsible. I know you weren't born or involved in that so I wouldn't hold that against you. My point of mentioning that is to show that sometimes we don't get to choose. I can bring a more updated version but don't take it personal.

Segregation, women's rights, religious freedoms for one group but not another. Those people didn't get to choose. But again, on the other side of all of that we can see where improvements were made and where equality was the goal. It's it perfect. nope. but it's movement in the right direction. But as I've stated history has a tendency to repeat itself. While discrimination still occurs very little is done on the basis of race. Instead it now based on gender. Some of those same arguments that were used for race discrimination are now the same arguments used for sexual discrimination.

I only bring up things in the past so you can compare the actions that happened then that are happening or that fairly recent as history goes. I don't know anything about your family but there's a chance that in the future your family will become as diverse as mine if it's not already so. If and when this happens and you are still living, you will view things from different perspective.

it just seems like a poor and very outdated example to use. It does not exist in our US society.

Again repeating trends. It doesn't matter when it happened as much as it keeps repeating and it's not always the same group of people. Where I agree with Jobo is . 'If it happened the first time, what would make me think it won't happen again."

This is what Jobo was talking about. Using US soldiers as guinea pigs to test the effects of the atom bomb testing. I agree with him on this part. Just not the part about the test being done to see how fast cancer grows.

This is about the historical trends of family separation of families that have occurred in the US.

I do not feel either of us really understand what is like to live in a country like Ukraine or Russia.

To be honest I don't want to know what it feels what it like. If we (any American or any person in our country) know how that feels due to something the US has done to us, then it means we ignored the signs and didn't stop it before it happened. It's my responsibility as much as it yours. It's your responsibility as much as it is mine. While we didn't do the deeds before our birth we are responsible for what we do in our lives today. Just my opinion on it. If we ignore that responsibility then it is our fault.

When history asks who stood up for what was morally right and fair. What will our answer be?

Believe me when I say my family is a rather strange mixed bag.

I believe you when you say it. You don't talk much about your family. I'm not saying you have to, but if I say something inaccurate about your family then correct me on it. Don't let me continue on "stupid street" lol. Be a friend. Don't let me walk around with a booger hanging out of my noise. Don't let me walk around with bad breath. lol Those are things I can correct. lol.

Why is it wrong for me to say I refuse to let it affect my sphere.

I will have to take your word on it. It's just that I look at things slightly different. Everything affects my sphere in one way or another. It's not always a negative thing, it's mostly positive even when it's one of those times I've put my foot in my mouth and learned that I didn't know what I was talking about. Other times it's just a blip on the radar and after that it's like what you stated. Race doesn't come up until something is mention that makes me think of it.

The thing that I appreciate about this conversation we have is that we are having it and it was fairly open about our perspectives without either one of us feeling like one was trying to "make the other person feel this way." At least I hope I wasn't making you feel that way as it wasn't my intent.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Agree. So why are we disrupting relations with our neighbor to the North? Makes no sense at all. Putting all the economics aside, having access to resources is really what wins wars in the end.

Assuming we are looking at the same thing. Your guess is good as mine. This may we one of those things where there's no rational reason to do so. The year is young and new players are on the board, so we'll watch and see how the world reacts.

I would be happy just to get rid of Covid-19 After months of some doctors and scientist stating that there is no need to worry about deadly mutations and that it's rare. Now we have 2 new strains that are believed to be more deadly than the original. If that's the case then a lot of world priorities will change. hopefully for the better.

You are also right about having resources, can't fight or win a war without them.

 

[JowGaWolf]

What do we know about conspiracy theories?

A Game Designer’s Analysis Of QAnon

Couple of interesting articles I've read recently that tackle the same points from different directions. I think the idea of guided apophenia is very interesting.

That's scary. Grade A Mind Warp. I feel good amount the stability of my mind, but that sounds like some stuff to be very cautious of. Like something that once it finds a way in, that it will just continue to pull you in.

All it needs to do is to "grasp on a thread" of possible truth in order to unravel reality. There are going to be some really screwed up minds in the future.

The only thing I can think of that would fix something like this this is to run head on into reality in a bad way. Like things would have to get so bad that the person would no longer trust what comes from that group. So far the only thing I've seen that's strong enough has been death and suffering. People think that this is a US problem. I'm hear to report that this is something that is spreading around the world as far as the Philippines.

My brother-in-law believes the the conspiracy that the OP quoted.

 

[_Simon_]

That's scary. Grade A Mind Warp. I feel good amount the stability of my mind, but that sounds like some stuff to be very cautious of. Like something that once it finds a way in, that it will just continue to pull you in.

All it needs to do is to "grasp on a thread" of possible truth in order to unravel reality. There are going to be some really screwed up minds in the future.

The only thing I can think of that would fix something like this this is to run head on into reality in a bad way. Like things would have to get so bad that the person would no longer trust what comes from that group. So far the only thing I've seen that's strong enough has been death and suffering. People think that this is a US problem. I'm hear to report that this is something that is spreading around the world as far as the Philippines.

My brother-in-law believes the the conspiracy that the OP quoted.

Yeah, and the really scary thing is that the people who are deep in the conspiracy game believe they are stable in the head too! And so deep are they in that bubble that there's often nothing that can convince them of their delusion until the proverbial s**t hits the fan and things go really bad... that's why in cults they really have to get taken for a ride, lose their family, money, trust of themselves and people outside the group, everything before they start to see that hey... something's not right here...

Another thing I've seen is that if people face alot of opposition and disagreement of their views, they mistakenly assume that they MUST hold the truth if it's causing such disruption.... (have seen that on this forum even) and sad they don't see that it's people simply calling them on their nonsense.

Statements like "ah they just don't understand...", "they just can't handle the truth" etc seem common...