What is "Zen" ??

[Bob Hubbard]

From the alt.zen faq.

What is Zen? (the real question)
This question basically asks "What is the essence of Zen?". It appears in various guises throughout Zen literature, from "What is the meaning of Bodhidharma's coming from the West?" to "Have you eaten yet?". The question cuts right to the heart of the matter and can only be answered by you. Perhaps the best answer is "practice".

Why do people post such nonsense to this group?
One of the central points of Zen is intuitive understanding. As a result, words and sentences have no fixed meaning, and logic is often irrelevant. Words have meaning only in relation to who is using them, who they are talking to, and what situation they are used in. Some postings are indeed nonsense; other postings appear to be nonsense at first but this is because the meaning is all between the lines. Zen and poetry have gone hand in hand for centuries.

 

[Lisa]

Frequently Asked Questions On Zen

Awesome! Thanks Bob!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

If you lock 5 Zen masters in a room, I expect the conversation to sound incredibly random to the casual listener. To one who sees the between though, it can be quite thought provoking. It's a religion, it's not. It's a way of life, yet it is not. It has an old and complex history, with many incredible minds involved, yet is one of those concepts that is hard to nail down. You could say it's the search for inner knowledge and understanding. You'll be right and wrong at the same time.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I stickied 2 Zen FAQ's here which have some good suggested reading lists, and Xue added to them to.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

And this is where I have trouble. Maybe I am too literal of a person. Maybe I need substance and a solution to come to that is solid and can be proven.

And there you fall into the trap of "understanding". Understanding is not experience, its applying "brain" to something. Like the moon being covered by clouds. Your "solid solution" would just be more clouds. Reading about zen is like describing the taste of water. "Refreshing" explains nothing of waters essence. Describe "refreshing". You just have to taste it. Words can help provide a framework, but unless you experience it. They mean nothing.

Bodhidharma described Zen as:
"Not reliant on the written word,
A special transmission separate from the scriptures;
Direct pointing at one's mind,
Seeing one's nature, becoming a Buddha."​

And The parable of Gutei's finger is an old Zen nugget. One of the many ways to look at it is to think of the finger as representing a persons understanding of Zen. Mimicking someone elses understanding of it is not true enlightenment.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Lisa,
To put it another way, Zen is taking the perfect shot. You can't describe it, it just is.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Speaking of fingers, and related to Lisas question:

Whenever anyone asked him about Zen, the great master Gutei would quietly raise one finger into the air.

A boy in the village began to imitate this behavior. Whenever he heard people talking about Gutei’s teachings, he would interrupt the discussion and raise his finger.

Gutei heard about the boy’s mischief. When he saw him in the street, he seized him and cut off his finger. The boy cried and began to run off, but Gutei called out to him.

When the boy turned to look, Gutei raised his finger into the air. At that moment the boy became enlightened.

As in there is no benefit in walking the path of another. The child raising his finger has no meaning. The child must not just copy but must understand or be enlightened and then the path will be clear(er).

 

[Bob Hubbard]

It is also not mentioned which finger is being raised.

 

[Lisa]

Lisa,
To put it another way, Zen is taking the perfect shot. You can't describe it, it just is.

Now your talking in a speak I understand.

About that perfect shot.

I can get caught up in the "physical" that, although are important, (placement of elbow, cheek, feet, perfect trigger pull, follow through, etc) are not the only thing that makes a perfect shot. We jokingly call it "being in the zone" where our mind and body are both relaxed. It isn't a "physical" thing, it just is. My problem is that I can find it, but I can't seem to stay there.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

My problem is that I can find it, but I can't seem to stay there.

Meditation.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Some meditate by walkling, others fishing, some by sitting quietly.

Lisa does it by shooting things. :rofl:

*makes note not to be within 2 miles of Lisa when she's meditating....*

 

[kaizasosei]

i think that the meaning of zen is a mystery however i would like to speculate that zen is something like when the highest wisdom and concentration is instantaneously focussed into action.
so although it often seems very static, actually i think zen strives for action.
i think that as a religion or philosophy, like any teaching, zen will itself take on certain qualities of the practitioner.

basically, zen is associated with detatchment and a sort of otherworldliness. that is why zen was so important for warriors in japan because it promoted a stable unshakeable mindset. the attitude of zen i believe also implies taking responsibility for ones actions while becoming free of any restraints.
also zen is very physical..zazen is kind of workout for the feet,legs belly and back actually whole body and therefore whole physical/mental being. zen could be practiced through flowerarranging, archery swordsmanship or even handtohand battle. zen is the art of life and the art of death in every second.
the mind of zen is like the mind of the whole world all squeezed into a teacup held by a restless child.
i have also heard that the enlightment through zenphilosophy can be compared to a kind of controlled insanity. but actually i believe, amongst all things and probably others, zen can be seen as the cultivation of true sanity.

j

 

[Lisa]

Some meditate by walkling, others fishing, some by sitting quietly.

Lisa does it by shooting things. :rofl:

*makes note not to be within 2 miles of Lisa when she's meditating....*

You funny.

Didn't you read up thread where I said, I can find it but can't stay there, lol. I shoot one 10 and I am "cool" I shoot two in a row and I am like "wow" I shoot three in a row and I think "whoopy!!, okay don't get too excited, concentrate" *bang...oops 8

Anyways, back to the topic at hand. Zen, then, is a state of mind, not a thing, its like being in "the zone" where everything comes together.

Meditation.

Yeah, I have been working on that. Starting slowly. At night, I have found a comfortable position and started concentrating on my breathing and counting backwards from 100, until I fall asleep. Never made it to zero yet and last night, I barely remember the 90's.

 

[Steel Tiger]

You funny.

Didn't you read up thread where I said, I can find it but can't stay there, lol. I shoot one 10 and I am "cool" I shoot two in a row and I am like "wow" I shoot three in a row and I think "whoopy!!, okay don't get too excited, concentrate" *bang...oops 8

Anyways, back to the topic at hand. Zen, then, is a state of mind, not a thing, its like being in "the zone" where everything comes together.



Yeah, I have been working on that. Starting slowly. At night, I have found a comfortable position and started concentrating on my breathing and counting backwards from 100, until I fall asleep. Never made it to zero yet and last night, I barely remember the 90's.

You should try an old daoist bagua meditation position. You lay on the floor in a position as though walking the circle. That is, your'e on your side with the lower arm extended and the upper bent. The legs are the opposite. It is supposed to have been developed when bagua practioners were walking the circle and fell into a meditative trance and simply collapsed where they were. Its very comfortable. Careful not to fall asleep.

 

[Xue Sheng]

You want Zen (Chan) Buddhism - these are both pretty widely studied in Zen

The Diamond Sutra
http://community.palouse.net/lotus/diamondsutra.htm

THE GREAT HEART OF WISDOM SUTRA
http://www.pvtnetworks.net/~kmcguire/heart.html

 

[Kacey]

You want Zen (Chan) Buddhism - these are both pretty widely studied in Zen

The Diamond Sutra
http://community.palouse.net/lotus/diamondsutra.htm

THE GREAT HEART OF WISDOM SUTRA
http://www.pvtnetworks.net/~kmcguire/heart.html

Thanks, Xue - I'll look at these when I get home; I think they're gonna be a bit much to read during my lunch break... especially since it's half over!

 

[BlackCatBonz]

I have no idea what "zen" is or what one does to practice it. But recently with new "Koans" being posted, I have become curious. Can anyone enlighten me on the subject?

no

 

[Blotan Hunka]

no

LOL! Thats correct!

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Interesting quote.

Since Zen was first transmitted, it has never taught that men should seek for learning or form concepts. "Studying the Way" is just a figure of speech. It is a method of arousing people’s interest in the early stages of their development. In fact, the Way is not something which can be studied. Study leads to the retention of concepts and so the Way is entirely misunderstood.

 

[Obliquity]

Zen, then, is a state of mind

Or, no mind.

Hope that helps. Or not.