What is your view?

[Cthulhu]

Well, I've just started training with two guys from Ray Dionaldo's Filipino Combat Systems (FCS). One of the main systems taught is Sayoc Kali, which is very blade-heavy. The knife work I've seen is very impressive and seems to be very effective.

In my years researching various martial arts, I've found the FMA, particularly the various systems of kali, have very good knife training skills.

However, I'd ask some of the folks here who have had more extensive training in the FMA.

Cthulhu

 

[Don Rearic]

Sayoc Kali always gets rave reviews from people I respect. I have to touch base with one of their Instructors soon as I was unable to attend one seminar last year I was invited to.

They have a different "take" on Kali and it is quite refreshing and to say these guys live the knife is an understatement.

 

[Chiduce]

I may see this thing from a slightly different angle. The knife assualt will probably not come from the frontal position. It should be more of a slashing attack to not only get you attention, but also bring the fear of control upon you. This is the best possible time to respond because the attacker throughly believes that he/she is in control and their perception can be caught by surprise! In turn your element of surprise in this case, if you continue to counter attack until the assailant is unable to harm you will save your life! Remember, if you can see your attacker then you are subject to be fatally wounded if he/she is in control. As for the gun attack (say pistol), nowadays the gun will be held sideways for better control and less recoil back to the shooter. The frontal assualt is more likely in this case! The same understanding applies as the knife. You must counter-without notice and strike to disable the attacker and his/her ability to continue. I teach drills to enable the student to see the attack situation as it will occur on the streets. The knife and gun attack defenses are from the walk up, walk by, jog up, jog by, slashing side and rear attack, and the walk up pushing frontal assualts! The students learn to listen to themselves and hear others approaching. My sifu taught me a new kick to point score for tournament fighting. He new that i do not fight tournament, yet he new that i would understand his gesture! I listened to the incoming kick until i could hear the kick coming slowly and dodge, control, and counter. We still do not necessarily see eye to eye, but the respect for each other exists. This same principle of listening is being given to my students. We do not as of yet train with the actual metal knife but that will come as they progress! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[Don Rearic]

Originally posted by Chiduce
The knife assualt will probably not come from the frontal position.

In so many cases, it does come from the front. But it is very close. This is why LEO Opinions on the subject of Knife against Knife, Your Baton against a Knife and your Gun against Knife is somewhat skewed because in most cases, they respond to a call and they know there is danger and they can use range. You, on the other hand, are not responding to a call, but to A/V Cues.

I have not seen McCann & Kasper's Material on smothering draws, but I've been doing that for quite some time and look forward to seeing more info on that from them.

If you can smother the draw you see coming, you don't have to defend against the steel, you can simply start pounding on them.

Against a rear attack where the intent from the start is to kill you, there is no defense against a [properly executed, rear attack in the form of an assassination, we're speaking about Sentry Removal Techs there...there is nothing you can do. If you let them take your Six, you're a Goner and at their mercy.

If they intent on threatening you from behind, you can act, if they intend on simply killing you, you're toast.

It should be more of a slashing attack to not only get you attention, but also bring the fear of control upon you. This is the best possible time to respond because the attacker throughly believes that he/she is in control and their perception can be caught by surprise! In turn your element of surprise in this case, if you continue to counter attack until the assailant is unable to harm you will save your life!

Indeed, that is the time to spit right in their face and use sikaran and whatever objects/weapons you carry, that is the time to fog them with O.C. and take their legs out...then beat them to the ground and get out.

As for the gun attack (say pistol), nowadays the gun will be held sideways for better control and less recoil back to the shooter.

It offers no more control and no less recoil. The "Gangsta Method" of holding a handgun has been adopted by knuckleheads because they watched Police shooting handguns that way from behind bullet resistant shields, the reason they are held that way in that situation is because they usually have to be held that way.

There is one method for shooting a handgun with one hand where the handgun is canted a few degrees and resembles the "Gangsta Method" but it is not, it's known as "The Cirillo Cant." This does offer alot of control and you can still have incredibly accuracy and I use it whenever I shoot one handed.

It should not be confused with tilting the handgun over sideways, however. Two different things.

The one thing you can take a small degree of comfort in is this, the "Gangsta Method" is not that accurate, if it is in your face, it won't matter...but if it is at a distance and someone is doing that...it is not that accurate. It is very "Hollywood."

The subject of gun disarming is a hairy and controversial and there are two basic ways, control and break the fingers in the trigger guard or simply break the arm down on the first strike and hopefully knocking the gun from their grasp and then pounding on them regardless of the handgun flying away or not.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I carrry a balisong on me mostof the time I used it as an extraction tool when I worked on ambulences. Great for cutting seat belts removeingwindshilds, etc.
Yes , I got busted in Calif.For carring it but I dont live there any more.
I carry a folder when not carrying the balisong.
I practice opening and drawing or drawing and opening sometimes without realiseing I am doing so.
If I am going somewhere that warrents a "show of protection" I have a belt knife witha 9 inch blade. I make darn sue the law allows me to wear that one in public.

 

[arnisandyz]

I carry a benchmade 42 TI most of the time. I also have a Gerber Applegate folder I use for "utility" purposes. Living in Florida, I am not as concerned about penatration (like through a thick winter coat) as people up north. Down here we are more concerned about carry, a lot of shorts and bikinis!!! Many people I know carry carry lighter smaller knives like the spyderco models. Neck knives like the Livesay Woo are also very popular for carry reasons in hot climates.

 

[Turner]

10. Do not wrap a coat around your arm. Do try to find an expedient weapon, such as a belt or a stick.

I've seen a lot of systems encourage people to do this because the coat wrapped around the arm provides a minimal (very minimal, but defended as being better than nothing) sheilding to the arm to help you block the knife. May I ask why this practice should be discouraged?

Thanks in advance..

 

[arnisandyz]

Originally posted by Turner



I've seen a lot of systems encourage people to do this because the coat wrapped around the arm provides a minimal (very minimal, but defended as being better than nothing) sheilding to the arm to help you block the knife. May I ask why this practice should be discouraged?

Thanks in advance..

Bad Hand. We have a term in our knife fighting called bad hand. If someone throws an arm up to block the knife covered or not, its usually not the arm that the person has to worry about. If an untrained fighter wraps his arm, most likely that arm is going to come up to try and block...bad news, chances are slim against a trained knife fighter.

Now if its used as a backup behind a parry or pass for a disarm then can be effective, but you might as well use it in panyo style.

I wouldn't say not to do it, but if had a choice and the time, I'd spend the time drawing my gun, picking up a rock or a stick or running!

 

[Cthulhu]

Originally posted by arnisandyz


I wouldn't say not to do it, but if had a choice and the time, I'd spend the time drawing my gun, picking up a rock or a stick or running!

Ah, the art of Ching-Ching Pow

Cthulhu

 

[Turner]

So you mean that wrapping your hand is like telegraphing what you are going to do and gives the person with the knife the advantage. This I can see... I can also see better uses for the jacket... using it as a flexible weapon, similar to the way you'd use a belt, rope, or chain... not as good as those three, but again.. better than nothing. Or if you wanna go waaay back, use it as they did in the cloak and dagger days, a tool used for deception and confusion.

 

[Bod]

Don't be so harsh guys! The weapons laws here in Britain aren't so bad! Here are some of the upsides:

Although the murder rate due to knives is of course higher than guns, the overall murder rate is lower. OK so I'm probably going to have to back this up with some stats, so if I get general disagreement I'll dig around.

The gangs of muggers who do roam the streets of larger cities tend not to carry weapons, because they rarely get caught stealing, but the stop and search laws mean that if they do carry they'll probably get caught and get sent down.

The few police who do carry fire arms and are on call to deal with firearms related incidents are HIGHLY trained.

My empty hand skills are far more useful. I don't look like a complete idiot for training, since in all likelihood I will never have a gun pulled on me - I've only ever seen 1 handgun in England and that was carried by a police officer.

Accidents happen far less often.

We may not be free to own or carry a weapon, but we are liberty to jaywalk. You win some you lose some. : )

OK so this is just one way of doing things, and Britain is far from perfect. The laws haven't rooted out evil, though over here being good or bad is seen as far less important than upholding the law. The laws are more part of our tradition, since few people had guns when the laws were introduced. It's a pity that sport pistol shooting has suffered, but the martial arts generally have not been demonised as a result of the weapons laws, though if you want to learn balisong - well you can't.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Bod

The gangs of muggers who do roam the streets of larger cities tend not to carry weapons, because they rarely get caught stealing, but the stop and search laws mean that if they do carry they'll probably get caught and get sent down.

Interesting trade-off.

The system there certainly lends itself to making martial arts training valuable. Here in the States you may well face a knife or gun which means the odds will start off stacked against you.