What is WRONG with people?!

[WC_lun]

I saw this afternoon that the two administrators who covered it up as well as losing thier job will be charged. I did not see what the charges will be. In all likleyhood Paterno will finish the seasin then "retire." It is sad all the way around. Paterno's coaching career had ethics as one of its base pillars. Now, because he lacked the ethics to go to the police when the administrators failed to, his entire 40+ year career will forever be remembered by how it ended. To be honest, I don't feel sorry for him. Those kids though...so many adults failed them.

 

[Cyriacus]

But what really gets me is the attitude put forth from some sources, like 'those were kids from broken homes, who would believe them'

I am seriously wondering if boys are not more at risk than girls in those shady dark voids of the human mind!

At their Age, there is NO Bias. Both Genders are just as much at Risk.
The Number of Cases are Higher in Females if I think, though.
The Problem is that these Offenders arent being all Dark Void Human Mindy. Theyre just, how shall we say, Negatively Inclined.
And as for those who did nothing, I wouldnt be too concerned.

I used to live Two Houses down from a Pedophile, who was Released from Prison after a couple of Months.
The SHEER amount of Harassment and Violence that begot Him was so constant and relentless that I almost felt sorry for him.
These People pay the price for what theyve done, one way or another. And it all starts with the name and face getting to the News.
Now, I know that in doing nothing, they allowed more Attacks. But worse has happened.

In any case, the Media has Disclosed all this.
He will either have to disappear, or live uncomfortably for a long time.

Now, all that aside, Im not going to bleed Sympathy at them, for the same Reason You dont bleed Sympathy at every Car Accident You hear about all the Time.
Because this is One Offender.
He is not the Problem, what He is doing is the Problem.
Reduce the amount of these Cases Overall, and then we can be all Sympathetic. Until then, I say that trying to Reduce the amount of Child Sexual Abuse cases overall is vastly more Imperative.

Apologies if I sound a bit Callous - But I just dont see the point in showering every Molestation Case with Sympathy and Scorning everyone Responsible, when finding Solutions and trying to Prevent Future Cases should be a higher Priority than bashing down the Cases Individually.
If You start getting Road Traffic Accidents in a Particular Area, You try and Circumvent Future Incidents. You change the Speed Limits. You might Adjust the Road and Lights. And so forth. What do We have in place for Children? A few Watchdogs for Illegal Websites, and...? Counselors?

 

[granfire]

I was a bit lost til that last paragraph, which I agree with.

But how do you prevent future transgressions when you don't even deal with the the acute one?
I think what gets me most in this case - aside from the morality issue - is the fact that the offender was walked in on during the act.
If it had been a women, had the walker in asked for a turn? Or lowered himself to be decent?

I mean, this is not only a case of a bunch of kids pointing fingers!

 

[Cyriacus]

I was a bit lost til that last paragraph, which I agree with.

But how do you prevent future transgressions when you don't even deal with the the acute one?
I think what gets me most in this case - aside from the morality issue - is the fact that the offender was walked in on during the act.
If it had been a women, had the walker in asked for a turn? Or lowered himself to be decent?

I mean, this is not only a case of a bunch of kids pointing fingers!

How do You prevent Future Road Accidents?
I know! You offer Sympathy to the Victims and Insult everyone who was Responsible! Yeah!
And perhaps give the Survivors Counselling. Thatll stop this from hap... Oh Wait.

...Or, You let that go to Court, and Focus on changing the Regulations and Speed Limits in that Area, possibly adding better Traffic Light Rotations.

I apologise in advance, if any of the following hits any nerves. Really, I dont intend for it to. It just comes accross a little strongly. But to be fair, try explaining this in a Passive Way, and then try to have it come accross as clearly.

In other Words, start with a Campaign to keep these Offenders from having the means to do this in the first place. How? Firstly, Encourage Parents to NOT let their Kids run amok in Town. Its all Cute and Innocent until they get Kidnapped and Molested. Then its "oh my dear god why my child i just let them go off on their own for hours on end".
Encourage Parents to, at least until theyre 14, keep their Child in Proximity to a Parent or Adult Guardian.
Secondly, Increase Surveillance in Public Restrooms (Not in the Stalls. Think about it, youll get why), Surveillance in Showers (Again, not IN the Showers. But just outside them - You know, how you go into a Shower Room, and the Showers are Offset? Well, suffice to say, Big man and Small child in one Shower? hmmm), Surveilance in Changing Rooms (Again.), and so forth. Just jack up Surveilance everywere.
Next, Awareness. Children need to grow up a touch faster than they did in the early 20th Century. In being aware of the risk of being Molested, they can be aware of possible Stalkers, and know to gain the attention of nearby People if they believe someone paying a bit too much attention to them may be a Threat.
Next, Increase Security Personell in Sports Facilities and Shopping Centers.
Lastly, teach Children to never, ever, go wandering off alone, anywere.

Note that all this is completely off the top of My head. Ive put very little thought into it. Its just an array of Ideas, and Suggestions. But its a start, and proof of concept.

This wont completely eradicate the Problem, but it makes committing the Offense a whole lot harder. And the Risk Factor goes up Exponentially.

As for the Person walking in, Yes, thats... Questionable. But think of it this way: You are a completely regular citizen. Untrained. You walk into a Room, and You see a Man who has Overpowered a Resisting Female Rape Victim, Adult. She is unable to overwhelm Him. He may have a Weapon. Whatre you going to do, run towards Him Screaming? Go Running for Help so He can bolt after You? Youre not exactly in the middle of an Office Building with Buddies nearby to Help You, or a Crowd to Bolt into. You are Alone. Change Raping to Stabbing and apply the same Logic. Same thing, more intense. Now change the Adult to a Kid. Same thing, less intense.
I, as a Martial Artist, would Intervene.
As an Untrained Individual, it would depend on what the Rapist looked like.

As for Kids pointing Fingers, how is that Relevant?
Hes Responsible. Yay. Now his Life is pretty ****ed. You can barely get a Job with a Record for Possessing a Tiny Amount of Marijuana, let alone Child Molestation. Even if its just the Accusation.
Now how can this be Prevented from happening to Other Children?

 

[WC_lun]

If you walk in on a woman, child, or even man being raped, you do what you can to stop it from happening. That means at a minimum calling the cops. That's right, making a phone call. In this case no one did that and is part of why so many are upset. In addition children were involved and a popular university and head coach.

I don't know if I agree with some of your reasoning, Cyriacus. If you come across an auto accident do you not call the police or ambulance in favor of finding out how the accident happened and how to prevent it? Outrage in this case is a good thing. People should be outraged at the circumstance of the Penn State scandall. It means that we all haven't become so jaded that the cover up of child rape doesn't effect us.

 

[Cyriacus]

If you walk in on a woman, child, or even man being raped, you do what you can to stop it from happening. That means at a minimum calling the cops. That's right, making a phone call. In this case no one did that and is part of why so many are upset. In addition children were involved and a popular university and head coach.

I don't know if I agree with some of your reasoning, Cyriacus. If you come across an auto accident do you not call the police or ambulance in favor of finding out how the accident happened and how to prevent it? Outrage in this case is a good thing. People should be outraged at the circumstance of the Penn State scandall. It means that we all haven't become so jaded that the cover up of child rape doesn't effect us.

I never said They should be Relieved of Blame for doing Nothing - They are at Fault. That doesnt mean You Execute Them, is all Im saying.

As for being Jaded - Does every Suicide make Headlines?
I think You may be Reading what Im saying in the wrong Context, since You seem be Aiming mostly at Me not just diving down the Throats of anyone Involved. Im trying to look past Showering Blame on People, and Addressing Circumventing Future Molestations.


Additionally, of course YOU would Help them. But then, Youd also Help a Little Girl who got hit by a Vehicle and was laying in the middle of the Road. Anyone else remember that Incident? Point is, not everyone wants to be Helpful. Some People would prefer Inaction at someone elses Expense. Is it wrong? Yes. Should we cripple them for it? Debatable.

 

[WC_lun]

Perhaps I am taking what you are saying out of context. Sometimes it is hard to tell in a post online.

If a child needs help, you help. I can understand not becoming involved in a physical manner, though I don't really agree with it. However, if a person chooses inaction rather than doing something as simple as making a phone call, then those people are responsible for any further harm that comes to that child. In the case of child rape, they are also responsible for any harm that comes to other children at the hands of the rapist. I understand that we aren't all wired the same way and not everyone will do the things I think are right. I just think not helping a child being raped is despicable and as bad as the original crime.

I also never said execute them. After all, I don't support capital punishment, but a very lengthy jail sentence would be very appropriate I do believe the accused rapist and his enablers should have thier day in court. If they are found innocent, so be it. However, I think if the situation is as it is being reported, any person in thier right mind should be disgusted.

 

[jks9199]

I saw this afternoon that the two administrators who covered it up as well as losing thier job will be charged. I did not see what the charges will be. In all likleyhood Paterno will finish the seasin then "retire." It is sad all the way around. Paterno's coaching career had ethics as one of its base pillars. Now, because he lacked the ethics to go to the police when the administrators failed to, his entire 40+ year career will forever be remembered by how it ended. To be honest, I don't feel sorry for him. Those kids though...so many adults failed them.

Already announced. He's retiring at the end of the season. As to what he should have done -- I don't know enough. He reported the allegations. And apparently assumed that any corrective action would be taken. I personally think that as soon as credible accusations arose, he should have fired anyone connected -- or at least suspended them till the university and police completed their investigation.

EDIT: I've had a chance to look into it a little more; it seems that the program wasn't directly sponsored by the school and the abuser wasn't a school employee. That said -- the school still should have dumped the guy on the doorstep as soon as Paterno made his report.

 

[jks9199]

Addressing some of Cyriacus's points:

Most organizations today that deal with kids have extensive programs, procedures, and training in place to hopefully prevent child sexual abuse. Examples include:
Boy Scouts of America Youth Protection; Virtus training from the Catholic Church; the Girl Scouts of America don't have easy to find links on it like the BSA, but mention their procedures about checking volunteers; THIS appears to be the YMCA's program on a quick read.

Most states in the US have defined certain categories of professionals who encounter children as "mandatory reporters" of any sort of child abuse, including but certainly not limited to sexual abuse. Mandatory reporters generally include medical professionals, teachers and educators, and law enforcement officers. I'm not sure what categories of youth coaches and volunteers qualify as mandatory reporters. If I become aware in my professional capacity as a LEO of a child being abused, I MUST conduct an investigation and notify appropriate other authorities and resources, like Child Protective Services.

This is not something anyone today is taking lightly. However, in the past, it was often handled differently, much to the shame of many organizations like the Church and the Boy Scouts. Unfortunately, incidents from many years ago are still coming to light today -- especially since one public report often results in the discovery of other victims.

Any martial arts instructor or school that has youth members should have similar procedures in place, as well.

 

[Cyriacus]

Addressing some of Cyriacus's points:

Most organizations today that deal with kids have extensive programs, procedures, and training in place to hopefully prevent child sexual abuse. Examples include:
Boy Scouts of America Youth Protection; Virtus training from the Catholic Church; the Girl Scouts of America don't have easy to find links on it like the BSA, but mention their procedures about checking volunteers; THIS appears to be the YMCA's program on a quick read.

Yeah - Now, out of the whole Population, how many Kids actually take Part in these Groups? It needs to be Forced. Not Optional.

Most states in the US have defined certain categories of professionals who encounter children as "mandatory reporters" of any sort of child abuse, including but certainly not limited to sexual abuse. Mandatory reporters generally include medical professionals, teachers and educators, and law enforcement officers.

Yeah, but most Molestations dont occur in a Plain Sight.

I'm not sure what categories of youth coaches and volunteers qualify as mandatory reporters. If I become aware in my professional capacity as a LEO of a child being abused, I MUST conduct an investigation and notify appropriate other authorities and resources, like Child Protective Services.

Thats Good that it actually gets to that point from time to time. Unfortunately though, like Rapes, often they go Unreported. Hence why Preventing it should be a Higher Priority. Not that that Lowers the Priority of Addressing a Case.

This is not something anyone today is taking lightly. However, in the past, it was often handled differently, much to the shame of many organizations like the Church and the Boy Scouts. Unfortunately, incidents from many years ago are still coming to light today -- especially since one public report often results in the discovery of other victims.

Any martial arts instructor or school that has youth members should have similar procedures in place, as well.

Perhaps I am taking what you are saying out of context. Sometimes it is hard to tell in a post online.

I know what You mean

If a child needs help, you help. I can understand not becoming involved in a physical manner, though I don't really agree with it. However, if a person chooses inaction rather than doing something as simple as making a phone call, then those people are responsible for any further harm that comes to that child.

Definitely. That just shouldnt be the Focus of Discussion.

In the case of child rape, they are also responsible for any harm that comes to other children at the hands of the rapist. I understand that we aren't all wired the same way and not everyone will do the things I think are right. I just think not helping a child being raped is despicable and as bad as the original crime.

They didnt Physically Molest the Child. They arent as Bad as the Molester. They could just be Cowards. Again, They ARE at Fault. How much Fault is Debatable.

I also never said execute them.

I know - I was generalising. Alot of People are saying they should "Get whats coming to them", and that theyre just as Responsible as the Culprit. And im sure People have been wishing Him Death.

After all, I don't support capital punishment, but a very lengthy jail sentence would be very appropriate

For Non-Reporters, Jail is a bit Harsh. But, a Good Behaviour Bond, Community Service, and possibly Labor over a Long Period of Time would work.

I do believe the accused rapist and his enablers should have thier day in court. If they are found innocent, so be it. However, I think if the situation is as it is being reported, any person in thier right mind should be disgusted.

Definitely.

Yeah. Were on the same Page mostly.

 

[Nomad]

This editorial sums things up nicely for me.

In part:

Get some perspective, people.

It doesn’t matter that Joe Paterno has more victories (409) than any other Division I/FBS coach in history. Or that he has led Penn State to five undefeated seasons. Or that he has been a coach on the Nittany Lion staff since 1950, 45 of those as the head man.

The only thing that matters is that, for the past nine years, Joe Paterno knew.

In 2002, a graduate assistant, Mike McQueary, told Paterno that he had seen assistant Jerry Sandusky, Paterno’s one-time heir apparent, in the showers with a 10-year-old boy.

Paterno told his superiors. He opted not to inform police.

It was his choice. And on Wednesday night, he paid for it when he was booted out of the job he so loved.

And rightly so.

 

[granfire]

More of the same.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45286426/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/#.TsGWP_Kc5Wo

 

[granfire]

http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...view-i-shouldnt-have-showered-with-those-kids

No, Sir, the showering was not the problem.

 

[MA-Caver]

Paterno KNEW!
Under the Grand Jury testimony Joe Paterno admitted that he KNEW about Sandusky's inappropriate actions with a student.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/footba...grand-jury-he-8216-knew-ina?urn=ncaaf-wp11597
Paterno ‘knew inappropriate action was taken by Jerry Sandusky with a youngster’ in 2002

By Matt HintonWhat did Joe Paterno know, and when did he know it?

Today, we have some answers to the crucial question from the coach's mouth after Paterno's testimony from earlier this year — in which the now-former Penn State icon told a grand jury that he had been informed about an incident of "a sexual nature" between ex-defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky and a young boy in 2002 — was read for the first time in open court Friday.
In the testimony, Paterno said he "knew inappropriate action was taken by Jerry Sandusky with a youngster" after a meeting with then-graduate assistant Mike McQueary, who allegedly saw Sandusky sexually abusing a boy in a locker room shower the previous night, but did not inform police and waited at least a day to inform his boss, athletic director Tim Curley, because he "didn't want to interfere with their weekends."

Oh yes, lets not screw up EVERYBODY'S weekend over this... besides, the kid will get over it.
Stupid bastards! Hope they're held liable... all of those who knew and did NOTHING!

This part just pisses me off...

Legally, prosecutors have determined that McQueary, Paterno and Spanier fulfilled their obligations under state law and are not expected to face charges.

What about failure to report a crime? What about MORALLY being responsible to at least bring this to the attention of authorities so it could be investigated?
It's ******** and it's gotta stop!