What is the real value of a Black Belt today

R

RCastillo

Guest
In my short 21 year journey into the arts, I can remember back, when being a Black Belt meant something special.

Now, I kinda wonder. People don't have the discipline they used to have . People aren't tough, or at least, have the heart to work hard, fight, and stick around for the duration.

People just want to seem to want a workout, and thats it. You try to meet/give, what the public wants, without trying to water down your art, or your own values.

I know you don't want to control peoples lives, as I want to be able to control my own, but it seems we're almost having to chase some people to get them to stay. I know my own instructors never chased me.(Unless it was a commercial setting) but I remember busting my butt to give it my all too.

I even know some BB that have slowed down for some reason, or another. I always thought that others wanted to strive for the top, but that seems less, and less. I understand that life goes on and other things happen.

At times, it's even made me question what I'm doing, but I'm tied in, and have an obligation to my self, and instructors. I never wanted to go back in being the way I used to be and left things unfinished, and have now become a better person. But I also need to pass these things on, and I'm still searching.

Master Tracy has said before, "No matter what, all your students will eventually leave you!"Am I unrealistic in my view on these things here? Unless something goes horribly wrong, he will pass on before I leave him, and I feel like I owe him, as I do my parents, who are also gone now. I even feel obligation to my instructors I'm no longer with, but because they taught me, I feel tied to them as well. The obligation continues, but it seems to be a dying concept today.

Did I get left behind, or what?

Your view, and opinions are appreciated!

Thanks to all.:asian:
 
Good to hear someone else with alot of the same viewpoints I have as religious as I am about Kenpo. I don't know if we'll ever figure these people out Ricardo but I'm just training for me and those who want my knowledge, and are willing to suffer a bit to get it, physically and mentally as I did. It was well worth my time and effort to do so in my eyes.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde
 
I am truly proud of what I accomplished- it wasn't easy, and I value it.

But I have just started, and want much much more.

Some students at my dojo feel the instructor is too strict, where I've always felt he isn't strict at all.

If you feel you are holding on to outdated values, well keep doing it, please.:cheers:
 
belts mean nothing any more.When they are given out like wellfare.When I train with clyde! belt what belt? GI what GI? We bring our cups (lol) You know. the only thing that matters is that you bring is respect, loyalty,blood, and honor. That is some of things that l look for in black belt.







If this is wrong I dont want to be rignt.
Michael Grilli
 
It's true that many black belts (note the lower case b's) have lowered the social perception of what it is to be a Black Belt... and it's a shame!
BUT:
Now, those who hold them and earned them the way they were meant to be earned (blood/sweat/tears/time) can PROVE their worth instead of it being assumed.

Diamonds shine brightest while surrounded by carbon.
Just something to think about.

Your Brother
John
 
The belts actually mean something to me. Yeah anyone can buy a belt anytime they wish if that's what they would prefer. My first insturctor was one which you never asked for a test he told you when you were ready. Never at any one point did I ever take a belt promotion based on the good 'ole boys club. I never have nor will I ever in the future. If I were to sit on a specific degree for 10 or 15 years then that would be fine with me. It's unfortunate that most people these days wants something for nothing with as little effort as possible. :mad: I prefer on the other hand to have people around me say ok, yeah, that guy actually deserves to have the right to wear that belt.
 
Originally posted by RCastillo
In my short 21 year journey into the arts, I can remember back, when being a Black Belt meant something special.

Now, I kinda wonder. People don't have the discipline they used to have . People aren't tough, or at least, have the heart to work hard, fight, and stick around for the duration.

People just want to seem to want a workout, and thats it. You try to meet/give, what the public wants, without trying to water down your art, or your own values.

I know you don't want to control peoples lives, as I want to be able to control my own, but it seems we're almost having to chase some people to get them to stay. I know my own instructors never chased me.(Unless it was a commercial setting) but I remember busting my butt to give it my all too.

I even know some BB that have slowed down for some reason, or another. I always thought that others wanted to strive for the top, but that seems less, and less. I understand that life goes on and other things happen.

At times, it's even made me question what I'm doing, but I'm tied in, and have an obligation to my self, and instructors. I never wanted to go back in being the way I used to be and left things unfinished, and have now become a better person. But I also need to pass these things on, and I'm still searching.

Master Tracy has said before, "No matter what, all your students will eventually leave you!"Am I unrealistic in my view on these things here? Unless something goes horribly wrong, he will pass on before I leave him, and I feel like I owe him, as I do my parents, who are also gone now. I even feel obligation to my instructors I'm no longer with, but because they taught me, I feel tied to them as well. The obligation continues, but it seems to be a dying concept today.

Did I get left behind, or what?

Your view, and opinions are appreciated!

Thanks to all.:asian:
Click to expand...


Another variation on this theme is when the instructors drive away their students. Without considering the consequences. Ricardo I agree with your feelings on this issue.


Dave Simmons

Twin Dragon Kenpo Karate

http://www.mnkenpo.com
 
If the belt does not mean anything, then why strive so hard to get one? It means something to me, each and every one. Anyone who says that they don't matter should take a long hard look at why they say that. It is insulting to those of us who tested and earned ours over the decades. It also presents the new student with an unrealistic if not false impression regarding the value.

Don't demean the Belt. Rather look at the person who is wearing it.

Some people deserve the belt they wear, as they did everything their system requires to earn it. There are some systems that are more limited than Kenpo in terms of volume of material. Likewise there are others with more. Mr. Parker knew where you were with just a few minutes of watching how you moved. It was an enormous compliment to be told "you move well". I take that same compliment from some of the seniors, with the same spirit and meaning.

Judging others is a sad way to spend your time, as is comparing our Art to others. It is like apples and oranges to me. Some people want to lower it to the lowest common denominater, i.e. "My daddy can whip your daddy." Or the "I can kick your butt." If that is what it is about to you, so be it! But there is a whole universe of the Martial Arts you are missing.

Judge not lest you be judged. OK, so we are judged all the time, tournaments, gradings or tests, of our performance by our teachers. You just have to realize, just because a Black Belt (caps intended) from a McDojo does Taekwondo and has a repitoire that seems limited to a Kenpoist, he may well be a good representative of his teachers and Art, and really not know what else is out there. Likewise, we may not know 30 froms, limitless weapons, and be able to cartwheel in the air, inverted, with a twist. So what is your point? Do we not deserve our belts ... who is to judge?

Feel free if you have to, I just find myself getting more tolerant of some things as I grow into my Belt ... and less tolerant of others. It is all a matter of saliency, and do I really need to worry about this. The proof is in the doing, and how you feel about yourself and your students. One of my favorite quotes is from Joy Hyams' Zen and the Martial Arts, "It is always better to improve and strengthen your own line or knowledge than try and cut your opponents line" -Ed Parker.

Oss,
-Michael
 
expect everybody's black belt to mean as much to them as mine does to me. My rank is a symbol to me of the blood, sweat, and years I put into training, and a symbol of my "place" in my journey. It is as important to me as a high school diploma or my college degree, and I put more time into it than either of those!

Those who own a black belt that means nothing to them, frankly, have missed something along the way. But, my belt is for me, and I train for me.
 
We get a lot of visitors to my school. Some are black belts, some are not. Occassionally we get a black belt that is just not that good. When my students quiestion me about it, this is what I tell them.
"Remember, there are black belts and then there are Black Belts, just like there are doctors and there was a dentist named 'Doc' Holliday."
 
belts have their good points and their bad yes many of have trained very hard over the years to get our black belts and and i doubt if any of us would let anyone take them away but at the end of the day can we agree that it is the knowledge and how one moves that really displays where one fits in the scheme of things.

just a thought

JR
 
A belt is just a belt, regardless of the color. A true Blackbelt is what is inside the individual. In my school we have what is called the 3% rule. 3% of the students want to train hard and earn their promotions and belts, the other 97% go through the motions, don't try very hard, yet they pay the bills for the 3% so the school can remain open. Its a business and a fact of life. I appreciate the 97% because they maintain an environment that is great to train in. Do I have the same respect for them when they receive their Blackbelts as I do when someone from the 3% does? No way. And it makes me wonder when I meet a Blackbelt from a different school, were they part of the 3% or just going through the motions?
 
We bring our cups (lol) You know
Click to expand...

Because it didn't seem like Clyde's cup helped him at all when he was dummying Thrusting Salute for you. I guess you were just giving him payback for busting your studio lights with his shocking good looks. And, in turn, I guess he was getting even with me for laughing about it when he scooped my groin and put me out of commission.

Seriously, I enjoyed the workout and look forward to sharing the mats with you guys again.

Ron
 
Ron, anytime you need a floor come on down








Michael
 
Originally posted by RCastillo
In my short 21 year journey into the arts, I can remember back, when being a Black Belt meant something special.

Now, I kinda wonder. People don't have the discipline they used to have . People aren't tough, or at least, have the heart to work hard, fight, and stick around for the duration.

People just want to seem to want a workout, and thats it. You try to meet/give, what the public wants, without trying to water down your art, or your own values.

I know you don't want to control peoples lives, as I want to be able to control my own, but it seems we're almost having to chase some people to get them to stay. I know my own instructors never chased me.(Unless it was a commercial setting) but I remember busting my butt to give it my all too.

I even know some BB that have slowed down for some reason, or another. I always thought that others wanted to strive for the top, but that seems less, and less. I understand that life goes on and other things happen.

At times, it's even made me question what I'm doing, but I'm tied in, and have an obligation to my self, and instructors. I never wanted to go back in being the way I used to be and left things unfinished, and have now become a better person. But I also need to pass these things on, and I'm still searching.

Master Tracy has said before, "No matter what, all your students will eventually leave you!"Am I unrealistic in my view on these things here? Unless something goes horribly wrong, he will pass on before I leave him, and I feel like I owe him, as I do my parents, who are also gone now. I even feel obligation to my instructors I'm no longer with, but because they taught me, I feel tied to them as well. The obligation continues, but it seems to be a dying concept today.

Did I get left behind, or what?

Your view, and opinions are appreciated!

Thanks to all.:asian:
Click to expand...
I share your thoughts as well I do agree some people have lost a step or two, myself being one of them. I went through having a lot of training partners that all vanished after our school closed down. I lost a lot of friends and some of them have returned and have lost the desire to really work out. Some just like to B.S. about the old days. I remember desiring my BB more than dating the hottest gal on the planet, that like everything changed in time. Here I am on the verge of my BB test and for some reason almost as if to postponed it and stretch out the past memories I dilly dally around and am under the belief that "I dont have it like I use to " and am hesitant to accept my rank. I dont know if its because I will be a black belt in an era where the flame is almost dead. Who knows? I struggle daily to rekindle the flame. I also frown on mysef for dedicating time to this forum when maybe I should be working out, maybe I shouldnt work on debates and work more on my skills. Well who knows what the tide brings in, and tomorrow the sun will rise. Perhaps then I will find the anwsers. Good post.
 
In Kumdo/Kendo there are no belts. There are ranks but you would never know them. In our dojang, below shodan, everyone wears a white gi. But, people who come to train from other places often have a traditional blue gi although they are not shodan.

All that matters is the quality of your Kumdo. Your "belt" only determines your place in line for the traditional opening bows.
 
My take on the issue is that most black belts will view the acheivement of making the rank in the light that their instructor views it.

"I dont know if its because I will be a black belt in an era where the flame is almost dead."... I believe this was written by someone coming up on their black belt test.

Please hear me on this: The flame is internal. No one determines the brightness of your flame except you. If your serious about your art, then your flame will probably spark a few more flames in the hearts of others. That's how the art has always been passed down, only the serious perpetuate the art.

Respects,
Bill Parsons
 
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