WHAT is the BEST SWORD for HOME DEFENSE??

[jarrod]

Right, but do not forget you are inside your home, and unless you have Zen decorated house you will find your footwork messing with chairs, tables, sofa... you name it.

Of course stop an axe has to be difficult but with the so far personal choice of two short blades an axe can be "easily" handle like this:

http://www.expertvillage.com/video/109076_wing-tsun-butterfly-sword-defense.htm

unfortunately, there is no perfect solution to the scenario you're outlining. my first reaction though would be to throw a chair, lamp, whatever then follow up with a strike.

i think that the space issue you mentioned would work more against an an ax than a hammer. for instance if you have a doorway between you & the attacker he won't have many attacks available whereas you will still have several options.

jf

 

[jks9199]

But wouldn't be yourself more efficient with two wakasahi instead one katana? specially considerent that intruders don't come alone.



Well... in my country you can legally use an equal force to the attack you're suffering. So if the intruder have no weapons I cannot attack him with the sword without getting in troubles but in this case the threat would be enough to make him run.

Anyway they always come arm so the use of the sword would be legal. At least in my country.

It sounds like you're already reasonably aware of the legal aspects of defending yourself in your country -- but, among the other good advice given, I'd definitely spend some time learning about the laws, too. You'll hear people quote the infamous "rather be tried by twelve than carried by six" line here in the US -- but I'd personally rather avoid either option by knowing the laws.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Hey Jarrod my dad liked thee ole' mighty hammer. Slept with it under his pillow and hand on it haha.

Sukerkin when using the katana in low ceilings and such does that mean you would not use Jodan no kamae?

That video clip using butterfly swords against a staff I guess is possible but I would think when using an Ax the power behind it would knock someone down or back if they blocked it.

I think blocking an Ax is not the best approach but because of its swinging and weight might be better to use timing and distancing to disarm someone.

But I never fought an person with an Ax lol.

 

[Sukerkin]

The options with the katana in low overhead situations depends on whether you're talking normal room height, a temporary lowering such as a doorway or a lower than usual ceiling.

Some environments call for a change of cut (kiriage for example, which is a cut up from the waist (either directly from nukitsuke or from waki no kamae) rather than from overhead) or for a change of stance (dropping to seiza or tate hiza to execute a cut from jodan). Other's use blade handling to put force into a slice started with the tsuba in front and lower than the head or to support a thrust.

It's one of those times when I wish we were physically present so I could show you rather than vaguely tell you .

EDIT: Darn it! I hate five button mice some days! I'd just added quite a bit of explanatory text to this post, describing some techniques and circumstances, when I accidently pressed the left shoulder button ... and lost the lot :grr:.

I don't know if the Net would yield anything but try Googling for Mon Iri, Kiriage, Shiho Giri, So Do Me or Tsuigekito(first cuts of those three kata), Tanashita or Ryozume for some examples from Muso Jikiden. The majority of techniques with katana in 'civilian' context deal with surprise attacks and restricted space, which is why I would be reasonably confident of using my sword in the house if I need to :lol:.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Thanks for that.

Makes sense to do a cut from Jodan using seiza or tate hiza in the lower ceiling.

 

[arnisador]

Are Tasers legal (or not too illegal, which might be a reasonable risk)? Cattle prods? A powder to toss in the eyes?

A dog(s) is a great idea. A machete is an excellent choice if a sword is what you decide to use. Depending on the layout of your house perhaps another, longer weapon would work too. Always have a backup weapon(s)...knifes, brass knuckles, saps, something.

A small pistol crossbow stationed near where you usually sit can slow one person down while you engage the other one. You need to have things nearby that can be thrown in a case like this. Slow them down, injure them, throw them off their game plan, buy others in your place time to escape/call police.

Don't forget that having a cell phone, charged and turned on, on your body is excellent defense. Dial the emergency number (like 911 in the U.S.) and loudly announce that you've done so.

If you're too outnumbered...think survival. Fighting isn't always the best self-defense strategy. If it's this big of a threat, stash $200 somewhere and be prepared to give it up.

 

[Archangel M]

What the hell country do you live in?

Sounds like Australia after the Apocalypse. He better start hording gasoline.

 

[frankieus]

Are Tasers legal (or not too illegal, which might be a reasonable risk)? Cattle prods? A powder to toss in the eyes?

In Spain all these things are illegal, including the pistol crossbow and brass knuckles. About the chemical for the eyes you might end up like this poor police officer: http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=hMttrTtkYDg

About the too illegal thing... Well, you have a point there, perhaps I should consider to bend the law a bit with cattle prods, but I know for certain that cattle prods not even police are allowed to use them. If I go illegal and I kill an armed intruder with that I might end up in jail, but if that happens with a legal sword then I am fine. But you're right, it is worth you check how far can I bend the law in my advantge.

If you're too outnumbered...think survival. Fighting isn't always the best self-defense strategy. If it's this big of a threat, stash $200 somewhere and be prepared to give it up.

I totally agree with you on this, unfortunately in Spain new trends among criminals that break in means they will torture you anyway to make sure you really only have those $200... And when I say torture I mean weeks in hospitals with possibles side-effects for life. So they won't go that easy with just $200, not to mention that they might want more than just money: daugthers, girlfriends, sisters... But good advice anyway, though I think that I will probably need $2000 to make them believe I have no more and be spared.

 

[frankieus]

Sounds like Australia after the Apocalypse. He better start hording gasoline.

Hahaha... Yeah, I think Spain has one of the toughtest laws in the world when it comes to control weapons. Just a couple o decades ago Spain was just very fine when it comes to crime... I mean, thieves were "honest" doing their job and having weapons at home made not much sense at the time.

But lately this has just gone crazy! gangs from South America and Ex-Soldiers from the extinct Yugoslavia came to Spain and little by little crimes became extremely violent and ruthless learning the ways of the newcomers.

Just check their work in the background of the photo on a very famous person in Spain: http://www.abc.es/Media/200808/06/moreno--253x190.jpg

see the ax work on his head? he nearly dies. So well, I am just trying to cope with what I have: extremely violent criminals and a law that get me in jail if I even think to get a gun.

 

[Carol]

Frankius, those criminals sound like they are very smart and very organized. That is very scary to hear that you live among that kind of threat

 

[Sukerkin]

That sounds a horrible situation to be in, frankieus.

Many years ago I knew a couple of Spanish people quite well and the tales they told me were of how things were getting better gradually after Franco but that the police were still corrupt and more an 'enemy' of the 'normal' person than the crminal.

It seems things have not improved much, which is sad to hear.

It might be cold comfort but your countries present stance on personal defence is sadly not unique. Governments still resist the common sense reality that weapon laws only disarm the law abiding .

My own strategy might seem a little odd at first reading.

I have katana available in every room of the house (except the bathroom ... rust being an issue ). Doesn't this mean that I am simply putting weapons 'into' the hands of anyone who breaks into our house?

Well, yes it does.

However, because a bike accident means that I can no longer defend empty-handed, it pays, legally, for my attackers to be armed also. Given that what I am trained in is katana, it also follows that what I am best trained in defending against is katana. So I want a burgular with violent intent to grab one of my 'wallhanger' pieces and come at me with that in preference to any other weapon.

 

[frankieus]

Many years ago I knew a couple of Spanish people quite well and the tales they told me were of how things were getting better gradually after Franco but that the police were still corrupt and more an 'enemy' of the 'normal' person than the crminal.

You get it wrong there; what that Spanish couple meant was that things were getting better in terms of personal rights, democracy and liberties, but security with Franco (as with Fidel Castro or any other dictator) was extremely high, criminality rates were extremely low because criminal basically had no rights and they feared police terribly....

Of course, when you get rights so do criminals and the story begins... I guess you cannot have everything. Police at the time were only "enemies" to people if they get into politics, democracy activist and so on..., otherwise your life was plain and easy, something that nowadays even strong opponents to Franco admit (privately of course

)

I have katana available in every room of the house (except the bathroom ... rust being an issue )

Well that is a good question too; where to place the blades. I guess that if you only have one it is better place it in the bedroom.

So I want a burgular with violent intent to grab one of my 'wallhanger' pieces and come at me with that in preference to any other weapon.

Hey! I just thought up a way to give you some leverage against the burglar taking one of your katanas. There are are some special knots (in Spanish we call them navy knots) and dome are quick and easy to loose them if you know how but otherwise is messy and you just might get the knot fixed and very hard to loose.

I could be a good idea in your case to place such kind of knot around your katana and fixed to the scabbard, this way it would be a piece of cake to draw your katana for you, and someone not familiar with that knot will have to try to figure out what the hell is wrong with it... Thinking about it, it would be a good idea even to stop visitors to hurt themselves accidentally... anyway, just a random thought.

 

[frankieus]

Frankius, those criminals sound like they are very smart and very organized. That is very scary to hear that you live among that kind of threat

Well... I don't want you to get the picture that this happens to everybody everyday in Spain, the same way that accidental fires do not happen to everybody everyday... But they do certainly happen.

I bought a fire extinguisher just after I survive to a fire at my home... The bottom line is that I don't want to survive to an intruder to take precautions.

 

[Langenschwert]

Ok, after reading about your situation and the suggestions offered, here's my further advice:

Don't bother with using two swords at once. It's crazy difficult, and makes it hard to grapple with your off hand, which is very important when fighting with one-handed bladed weapons. I've done some small bit of HNIR... for rough and dirty self-defence, it takes too long to master for someone who does it part time. The European rapier masters pretty much thought the same thing about two swords... yes, it works, but it's not worth the effort for most people, since you have to become completely ambidextrous to make it truly effective.

So, get a machete, or better yet, a grossemesser (German medieval falchion). They look like this: http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-grossemesser-soldat.htm

Note the crossguard and side protrustion (called a "nail") will help protect your hands when dealing with other swung weapons like an axe. A better close-combat sword has never been made, especially for civillian use. A Katana or shorter longsword are other good choices, since having two hands on a weapon is generally easier to learn, but everyone has their preferences. Although I'm primarily a longsword fighter, for home defence I'd pick the grossemesser.

Now, if you have a bedroom as a "safe room", get a spear if they're legal. You'll be able to skewer anybody that breaks down the door as they're crashing through with quick, pool-cue like thrusts.

But in all reality, move to someplace where you're allowed firearms. Barring that, join civil liberties groups that support firearms ownership (or start one!) and try to change the laws where you live while you train with whatever weapons and procedures the state allows. Guns really are the only sure defence, plain and simple.

And learn how to box. It's always a good idea to learn how to punch someone in the face REALLY hard.

Good luck,

-Mark

 

[frankieus]

Don't bother with using two swords at once. It's crazy difficult, and makes it hard to grapple with your off hand, which is very important when fighting with one-handed bladed weapons.

Well I was thinking to use the left hand sword to block (the butterfly swords have half the blade bold for that purpose) and the right hand sword to cut, punch, and thrust.

But you have a point and, in fact, I am thinking if it won't be better just to use a shield on my left hand and a gladius on my right one, I mean, after all gladiator would fight the real thing to death and that seemed a good combination... And perhaps easier to learn that two swords.

 

[Langenschwert]

Well I was thinking to use the left hand sword to block (the butterfly swords have half the blade bold for that purpose) and the right hand sword to cut, punch, and thrust.

Better to grapple from a bind IMO. It's generally safer.

But you have a point and, in fact, I am thinking if it won't be better just to use a shield on my left hand and a gladius on my right one, I mean, after all gladiator would fight the real thing to death and that seemed a good combination... And perhaps easier to learn that two swords.

The gladiators didn't fight to the death that often. It was often show-fighting. The gladius is designed for fighting in ranks, not duelling, anyway. However, sword and shield combinations are very potent in general. Much better than two swords, probably by an order of magnitude. You might want more reach than a gladius offers though.

Also, use a weapon you like. That way you'll be more likely to train.

Best regards,

-Mark

 

[frankieus]

The gladiators didn't fight to the death that often. It was often show-fighting. The gladius is designed for fighting in ranks, not duelling, anyway. However, sword and shield combinations are very potent in general. Much better than two swords, probably by an order of magnitude. You might want more reach than a gladius offers though.

You seem to know a lot about gladiators. Do you happen to know what was their favored weapons choice when it came to death combats?

Also, use a weapon you like. That way you'll be more likely to train.

Good Advice

 

[pgsmith]

Since you asked, I will throw in my opinions ... Using a sword, any sword, for self defense when you are untrained in its use is a very bad idea. They are pretty ineffectual against any weapon with some reach, like an axe, unless you are well trained. It takes quite a while to learn how to use a sword well enough to properly defend yourself with it.

I totally agree with those folks that have said to improve your locks, and get a large dog. Both of those things will give you plenty of advance warning and distract the intruders, which will give you the upper hand in any encounter. My advice for a defensive weapon is one that I've not heard mentioned. I would suggest that you buy a heavy duty 20 or 24 inch pipe wrench. They fit the hand well, can deflect incoming blows, and are heavy and compact enough to deliver devastatingly effective counter blows. Add to that the fact that they're inexpensive and perfectly legal, and it seems to fit what you're looking for.

 

[Langenschwert]

You seem to know a lot about gladiators. Do you happen to know what was their favored weapons choice when it came to death combats?

No clue. But 75% of Gladiators lived to see retirement. Part of their diet (mostly vegetarian) was to give them more body fat, which bleeds more from superficial wounds for a better show.

I would think that gladiatores specialized in using their weapons both for "show work" and combats to the death, not specializing in different weapons for differnt shows.

The gladius is certainly a lethal, lethal weapon. It's just not designed for duelling, but certainly if you're good with it, you're a force to be reckoned with in a one on one situation. Remember that even two to one odds is VERY VERY bad. You need a lot of room to run to survive those odds.

Best regards,

-Mark

N.B. Another good combination is sword and dagger. Still a more useful combination than two swords.

 

[thardey]

To take a whole different tack here, historically, sailors and pirates had to fight in cramped, violent situations with only basic training.

A popular option for them was a short saber, or cutlass. (Much like a heavy machete with a kuckleguard) and a hatchet in the off hand.

You can easily trap, hook, pound, and chop with a hatchet. It's instintively easier to use than a sword or dagger, and had survived the test of combat throughout history.

(I don't recommend throwing it, though.)

If they're using an axe, they're probably using it for good reason. At least one small axe and one small sword could even, or beat the odds. But I would not dismiss the light axe so quickly, even a two-handed one.

Remember, theives are in it for a living: If the odds are even, most of the time they will not take the chance. They will only push it if they feel the odds are significantly in their favor. (Unless they're completely desparate.)