What is point of origin

[Doc]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Exactly stated, Point of Origin (POO) is a simple reference to WHERE "something" STARTS ....... if you are talking about 'your' action or any actions of your opponents...... that's it! the <<<<POINT>>>> of Origin.... it pretty much says is all.

Any movements after the designated "starting point" (POO), should be referred to as the LINE of action or the PATH of action.....

We should strive to make this easier not more difficult.

:asian:

The problem is most interpret "line" as linear when it may be either linear or circular. A "Path" is a "wide" line.

I was taught to express it in different terms although essentially we are discussing the same thing. By not being motion based it is expressed in anatomical terms as opposed to expeditious conceptual movement.

 

[Touch Of Death]

This concept is very usefull. To help us figure out what it is let us figure out what it is not. Starting every technique with your hands at your sides violates point of origin. Hammering from a thrusting position or thrusting from a hammerin position violates point of origin. When staring a fight and your right leg is closest to your opponent, stepping into a left neutral violates point of origin. Any others?

 

[rmcrobertson]

UH...starting techniques with your hands at your sides does not violate point of origin if that's where your hands happened to be when the hooraw started. And while Short Form 1 does separate points of origin, and does distinguish between hammering (first block) and thrusting (second block) blocks, neither necessarily has anything to do with point of origin as far as I can see...is it that if you launch a hammering block from the hip, the trajectory is probably too wide of a circle?

 

[Touch Of Death]

Robert,
It seems you are contradicting yourself. If your hands are not already up then, as you have just stated, the circle is to big to be of any use. Its Ok to use point of origin instead of dismissing it as a meaningless homily, as you seem to do to all of Ed Parkers teachings. Just because your hands may start at you sides does not mean that you have a get out of jail free card that says you can do any technique you want because you weren't ready. Now I'm sure you were taught to do mace of aggression with your hands at your side but in the time it takes you to bring your hands up "and" then pin and strike, you got you head smacked into the nearest metal object. Perhaps raking mace would have been the better choice. In a street situation you might want to get in the habbit of puting your hands up when you "feel' things are out of place and you are about to possibly be attacked. You are faster with your hands up, trust me.
Sean

 

[psi_radar]

Heh Heh. You guys said poo.

Seriously, I don't think there's too much to this. In a mathematical context, a point has no real mass, volume, or shape, it is only the representation of a single location in space. So there can't be a linear point of origin or circular or whatever, since shapes or lines by definition encompass a myriad of points. The term Point of Origin is just a reference for the space a weapon occupies at a certain juncture in time--in this case, when a technique (basic) begins.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Well, that was completely wrong.

In the first place, you are making unwarranted assumptions about my training.

In the second--and far more important!--place, having your hands down when you're attacked has nothing whatsoever to do with the concept of point of origin. Point of Origin simply says--and this is all that it says--you move from where you are to where you need to get to, without moving somewhere else first. Doesn't matter if it's a hand, a foot, a weapon, a stance, whatever--if the hand you want to move is on your hip, and you need to raise your hand, you do not scratch your butt before you raise your hand.

The fact that your hands are up or down hasn't got a thing to do with point of origin...other important principles ("thou shalt not go sleepybye in the Presence of Thine Enemies;" "thou shalt not let thine enemies get close enough to Smite Thee;" "If thou standest there like a penguin, thou shalt getteth thy face smacked up"), surely, but not point of origin.

And by the way, point of origin doesn't say a thing about thr jrajectory your foot, hand, etc. takes--it just says, "Don't go backwards when you want to go forwards." Further, there's no telling which weapon or trajectory will be useful in advance--there may be times when a back elbow is just the ticket, if your hand's on your hip and you need to punch the guy in front of you.

Hope this helps; thanks.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Wouldn't not going back before you go forward be about the same as don't go up before you come down? Just because you say that the position of your hands has nothing to do with point of origin does not make it so. Some of us fight with our hands, there Robert, so point of origin would then apply to those of us that use our hands. I appologize if I assumed Y'all employed the use of your hands in your Kenpo. My Bad.
If my new assumption is wrong. Then how in gods name does the position of you hands not have to do with point of origin? enquiring minds want to know.
Your pal
Sean

 

[rmcrobertson]

Simple. If your hands are down, then you start from having your hands down. That's absolutely all it is.

Again--point of origin says nothing about whether you should have your hands up, down, or in Schnectady, New York. At best, one of the corollaries to Point of Origin, is that it's best not to get caught with your hands (or pants) down.

And again--you might find it easier to converse if you didn't make assumptions about other people's training--or at least, kept mum about them.

 

[Touch Of Death]

so can I at least get you to explain why you wold hammer with you hands at you side?

 

[rmcrobertson]

Since my favorite versions of Five Swords are, in order, maneuvers I call, a) "staying out of obvious biker bars," b) behaving politely, c) buying the guy a beer, d) leaving the joint, e) asking the bartender/bouncer for help, f) ball kicking the putz, well, I probably wouldn't hammer with my hands down at my side. Unless my opponent was three feet tall.

Remind me--what are we talking about, again? Was it point of origin?