R
RCastillo
Guest
Old Fat Kenpoka said:
Well that must mean we're both gonna get thrown out of MT! :uhohh:
Well that must mean we're both gonna get thrown out of MT! :uhohh:
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
RCastillo said:
Nawwwwww........ I vote keep ya's....
Like I said before.... we can always use you as bad examples........ :uhyeah:
J/K of course......
:asian:
Doc
Senior Master
Perhaps you could elaborate on what's missing from YOUR Kenpo experience, instead of telling us what's missing from OUR'S.Mr. Grimm said:
And in answer to your question, clearly what is missing is a plethora of truly knowledgeable teachers which is why people keep making assumptions about ALL of kenpo when they only know of THEIR kenpo.
Dark Kenpo Lord
Brown Belt
Doc said:
I'm always amazed people bring this up when they haven't researched Kenpo at all. Knowledge can only be found where you seek. If you want more, find more, there are Kenpo instructors with knowledge most have not seen or experienced.
Dark Lord
J
jeffkyle
Guest
Dark Kenpo Lord said:
But then I wouldn't be Blissfully Ignorant!!!
K
kenpoangel
Guest
Mr. Grimm said:
The main thing I've noticed it lacks is a SENSE OF HUMOR!
So much bickering and fighting over pointless stuff. We're all learning something and getting something from our training. The rest of this crap simply doesn't matter.
If ya can't laugh at yourself...laugh at your training :iws: :btg:
Back to the comedy store
Angela
K
kenpoangel
Guest
kenpoangel said:The main thing I've noticed it lacks is a SENSE OF HUMOR!
So much bickering and fighting over pointless stuff. We're all learning something and getting something from our training. The rest of this crap simply doesn't matter.
If ya can't laugh at yourself...laugh at your training :iws: :btg:
Back to the comedy store
Angela
Darn it,,,
That was suPPOSed to read, "If you can't laugh at yourself,,,laugh at your training partner" I think my icons ate it...HAHAHAHA
Back to the writing board,
Angela
Old Fat Kenpoka
Master Black Belt
Right on Angela! So much flaming over so little! So many knickers in knots over little technique application differences!
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
Chow and Parker both modified kenpo to reduce the amount of ground-fighting, believing it was better to eliminate an opponent while upright, rather than going to the ground (as with a judo-player) and risk being pounced by his buddies. The old pine-tree stuff had much less emphasis on high-speed percussive striking than AK, and more on take-downs, throws, chokes and submissions.
The wheel turns again. The judo players of the time were less lethal than the Brazilians...you could pop them a couple times before they got you to the floor. And, besides, many of the self-defense techniques make much more sense in the context of someone who is siezing you to toss you on the floor. What is the set-up for most judo throws? Two-handed lapel grab, or a single lapel grap with the other hand free to assist the momentum of the throw. Do you think there were a lot of people wearing heavy jackets in t-shirt-laden Hawaii? Lone Kimono, Twin Kimono, and the list stays solid all the way through.
BJJ comes along and doesn't reach for your lapels...they latch on to you or dive for a leg too far below the radar to fire off charging ram effectively. So do what Chow and Parker did...ADAPT! Either study the other arts to be able to fight in that aquarium, or to learn enough about their ins that you can develop Kenpo replies to common assaults. After hearing an EPAK 4th degree teaching captured leaves say he had no idea how someone would get you into this position, I opted to learn the other guys' stuff. And I wasn't the first. Dave German added Judo and Chin Na to kenpo years ago. And the list goes on. A bunch of the Hawaiians also cross-train in Wally Jay's or Sig Kufferath's jujutsu/judo systems to augment their kenpo abilities.
There are still jujutsu things hidden in kenpo that make a lot more sense when you return to the ground. Deep kneel & close kneel are stances in kenpo, that resemble going knee-up on someone in BJJ an awful lot; instead of doing it in front of your oppnent, do it on your opponent.
Lot's of very good kenpoists augment their training...some with FMA, some with grappling, and some with combat handgun training. Are they now no longer kenpo practitioners? Has their five swords somehow mystically morphed into a Shotokan bunkai? If it is time to adapt to survive, then do it. In terms of the "love kenpo or leave it" thing, ...When did we become defenders of the one true faith, instead of the thinkers Mr. Parker was trying to create in the first place?
Here's an idea for adaptation...new extensions. Whack the guy with five swords, then shoot on him to pull him to the floor, mount him, hit him in the face till he gets sick of it and turns prone, then finish it with the rear naked choke with grapevined legs (mata leaon). Multiple opponents? Don't finish the extension.
Evolution is simple: Adapt, or die. The simplicity of kenpo...despite all of its not-so-simple definitions, is that the vocabulary of motion empowers us to identify and articulate the technical aspects of ANY ART, thereby making assimilation not only possible, but easy.
OK. Off the horse. Sorry y'all.
The wheel turns again. The judo players of the time were less lethal than the Brazilians...you could pop them a couple times before they got you to the floor. And, besides, many of the self-defense techniques make much more sense in the context of someone who is siezing you to toss you on the floor. What is the set-up for most judo throws? Two-handed lapel grab, or a single lapel grap with the other hand free to assist the momentum of the throw. Do you think there were a lot of people wearing heavy jackets in t-shirt-laden Hawaii? Lone Kimono, Twin Kimono, and the list stays solid all the way through.
BJJ comes along and doesn't reach for your lapels...they latch on to you or dive for a leg too far below the radar to fire off charging ram effectively. So do what Chow and Parker did...ADAPT! Either study the other arts to be able to fight in that aquarium, or to learn enough about their ins that you can develop Kenpo replies to common assaults. After hearing an EPAK 4th degree teaching captured leaves say he had no idea how someone would get you into this position, I opted to learn the other guys' stuff. And I wasn't the first. Dave German added Judo and Chin Na to kenpo years ago. And the list goes on. A bunch of the Hawaiians also cross-train in Wally Jay's or Sig Kufferath's jujutsu/judo systems to augment their kenpo abilities.
There are still jujutsu things hidden in kenpo that make a lot more sense when you return to the ground. Deep kneel & close kneel are stances in kenpo, that resemble going knee-up on someone in BJJ an awful lot; instead of doing it in front of your oppnent, do it on your opponent.
Lot's of very good kenpoists augment their training...some with FMA, some with grappling, and some with combat handgun training. Are they now no longer kenpo practitioners? Has their five swords somehow mystically morphed into a Shotokan bunkai? If it is time to adapt to survive, then do it. In terms of the "love kenpo or leave it" thing, ...When did we become defenders of the one true faith, instead of the thinkers Mr. Parker was trying to create in the first place?
Here's an idea for adaptation...new extensions. Whack the guy with five swords, then shoot on him to pull him to the floor, mount him, hit him in the face till he gets sick of it and turns prone, then finish it with the rear naked choke with grapevined legs (mata leaon). Multiple opponents? Don't finish the extension.
Evolution is simple: Adapt, or die. The simplicity of kenpo...despite all of its not-so-simple definitions, is that the vocabulary of motion empowers us to identify and articulate the technical aspects of ANY ART, thereby making assimilation not only possible, but easy.
OK. Off the horse. Sorry y'all.
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
DavidCC said:I use lots of takedown / finish combos, I like it
I do also, and have since orange belt! I guess it just depends on your particular training lineage.
:asian:
Kempojujutsu
Master Black Belt
While I may not be an expert at EPAK. I have looked at Long 5 and the techniques that come from it. Two techniques do have jujutsu techniques in them Sleeper with a shoulder choke, and Dance of Death with a single leg tackle. Back Breaker could apply a rear naked choke in it. After that most of the takedowns are crude takedowns closer to what JKD would do. I didn't see much into O goshi, O soto gari type throws. Most invovled kicking the knee out. I also didn't see any type of joint locking. I would like to see kenpo more like what David German does. He does included joint locking, chokes and throws into his kenpo techniques not just kicking out the knee. Kicking out the knee is not a bad thing. But if you are in a clinch or laying on your back it's going to be hard to do that.
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
Hey, here's a tough question: what art did Mr. German learn first?
And another toughie: why, exactly, are people who claim to be beginners worrying about their ability to handle absolutely everything?
And another toughie: why, exactly, are people who claim to be beginners worrying about their ability to handle absolutely everything?
R
Rainman
Guest
rmcrobertson said:
Judo
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
Doc, a subjectivist? Naaaww.Doc said:
sounds like a subject for a new thread :jedi1:Doc said:
Sean
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