What is it with reality systems and hip throws?

[Martial D]

In stead of using hip throw to counter a rear neck choke, you can use hip throw to achieve a rear neck choke.

That's my move lol. I've been using that one since HS.

(its easy to escape if you know how, but it catches people offguard heh)

 

[JowGaWolf]

I don't do hip throws, but I know how to do one from my karate days. If an opportunity came to hip throw someone on the ground, I would probably take it. I wouldn't hunt for it though. I think the hip throw is one of the easier techniques to be able to do. Kids hip throw each other all the time. However, it requires you to be in a position that you really don't want to volunteer to be in. Especially these days with all of your BJJ and MMA people.

 

[drop bear]

Military gear is very bulky and heavy. What other throws would you suggest with they do when there is a limitation on agility?


EDIT. I think it is also easier to throw someone when they are fully equipped like that as well.

Not really fully equipped though. I couldn't see that done with a backpack on


Otherwise a head snap hanging off their helmet. A whizzer if you really wanted to turn your back. Or even a belly to belly suplex would if failed and you ended up in a really bad position on your back with them on top.

Would be better than the position of a failed hip throw attempt.

 

[drop bear]

IMHO you would make yourself more creditable by trying to show more respect, rather than your constant reference to Mc Map. Some military units would do more training in hand to hand combat, and some less, depending on their mission. Some military people will train on their own after formal training, some will not. Sound like civilian trainees you have known?

Easy to find video. And a really good example of a short course style reality system.

I don't think you understand how much training is needed in hip throws to be able to do them safely.

 

[drop bear]

Wouldn't stepping around be a much better tecnique?

It is one of those rare times I suggest going full street. And going straight for the squirrel grip.

And then the step around.

 

[drop bear]

This is a shoulder throw, but basically what I trained in Hapkido:

Here's another video, showing how you might do a throw in one scenario and a step around kind of technique in another, depending on your opponent's body position relative to yours:

I have seen guys are entering and doing the throw. Not so much as a response to a back take.

 

[CB Jones]

It is one of those rare times I suggest going full street. And going straight for the squirrel grip.

And then the step around.

After googling Squirrel Grip.....

 

[Brian King]

I noticed this looking through some videos recently that these sorts of courses are mad keen for a hip thow. Or some sort of judo variant.

Now I have been taken down by judo throws but never by a guy who hasn't really trained the thing.

What normally happens is they fire one off, wind up with their back exposed and basically have a real bad day from there.

Now I get it if you do judo. You can spend enough time getting good enough that it works. Above video is Mc Map which i cant imgine has anywhere near the time to make people competent enough to make it work.

I have ZERO problem with the military systems working with the type of throws shown in the OP video (post#1) It should be understood that short timeframes force multiple aspects and goals to be trained at the same time. A few quick thoughts - Many young people today going into the military have never had a fistfight, never been punched in the nose, and have not had rough and tumble peers (disliking someone on facebook or ignoring a poster on martial talk does not count). Throws like these can be learned and accomplished successfully even while physically and mentally exhausted (which is when they might have to be used and taught) or wounded, and are in fact taught and practiced often right after running thru obstacle courses (such as seen in the background of the video). Throws like these get recruits used to physical interpersonal contact. Throws like these help team bonding especially for those that have not had a lot of roughhouse contact while growing up. Throws like these teach a person that hard contact with the ground does not kill them and that they can get back up forcing a comfort with the ground that military members if deployed must have. Throws like these help recruits learn to lift bodies and to be lifted, which has other than martial aspects (first aid and rescue). Throws like these once practiced can be taught and accomplished in low or no light, restricted vision environments. Practicing in outdoor pits gets recruits and military members used to working in outdoor environments and off the gym mats. Fear of falling is one of the primal fears and repeated throws help to mitigate that sort of fear and thus teach a physical/mental/spiritual lesson about confronting and overcoming a fear.

Regards

Brian King

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don't do hip throws, ...

The issue with the hip throw is your opponent's both legs are still free. If you can lift one of his legs (or both of his legs) up, he will have less chance to escape. Of course since you only have 1 leg standing, your balance will be weak. It will require much more training time to develop that kind of leg skill and single leg balance. The hip throw is much easier to do.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Guy 1: make sure to grab the wrist and elbow, if you grab too high he will tighten the choke

Guy 2: make sure to grab high at the shoulder and elbow, or the throw won't work.


>>same throw

lol

Yeah, I saw that, too. I agree with both of them. One of those grips is better for arm control (to prevent a tight choke) and the other is the better way to do the throw.

 

[Martial D]

Yeah, I saw that, too. I agree with both of them. One of those grips is better for arm control (to prevent a tight choke) and the other is the better way to do the throw.

Well ya, both ways work(I tend towards the former, I don't like my neck being squeezed)

It's just they they both pretty much said the other guys way was wrong.

 

[oftheherd1]

Easy to find video. And a really good example of a short course style reality system.

I don't think you understand how much training is needed in hip throws to be able to do them safely.

Maybe you need to work on your thinking.

 

[oftheherd1]

Not really fully equipped though. I couldn't see that done with a backpack on


Otherwise a head snap hanging off their helmet. A whizzer if you really wanted to turn your back. Or even a belly to belly suplex would if failed and you ended up in a really bad position on your back with them on top.

Would be better than the position of a failed hip throw attempt.

I guess I must bow to your vastly greater experience as a military person.

 

[oftheherd1]

Yeah, I saw that, too. I agree with both of them. One of those grips is better for arm control (to prevent a tight choke) and the other is the better way to do the throw.

Yep, both can be made to work. The first thing I was taught was if I saw an arm coming across my face, was to lower my chin. then we would be as likely to remove the arm by using pressure points.

But anything that one can make work I s good.

 

[drop bear]

Maybe you need to work on your thinking.

You need to work on your trolling. Or make some sort of point.

 

[drop bear]

I guess I must bow to your vastly greater experience as a military person.

Good point. I forgot that wearing camo will completely change the outcome of that throw.

And seriously pressure points?

So greater effect of the pressure point value of a forearm across your throat?

 

[oftheherd1]

You need to work on your trolling. Or make some sort of point.

My first thought was that trolling seems to be more in in your bag of tricks, but on reflection, I think you are just ignorant of most other martial arts capabilities, when they do things that your training can not do. Sorry for you.

Good point. I forgot that wearing camo will completely change the outcome of that throw.

And seriously pressure points?

So greater effect of the pressure point value of a forearm across your throat?

Not cammo, but any and all combat gear. I wish I could encourage you to expand your horizons. But I think your horizons are artificially too close for you to even consider there are things you don't know. You constantly demand to be shown things, to battle test techniques, and yet refuse to evaluate anything beyond your own myopic understanding of your own art. Your lack of training or experience with other arts, and more, your constant attack on other arts simply because you are unable to understand them, makes you look not only uneducated in other arts capabilities, but ignorantly unwilling to learn. That is probably the saddest part. If I see something that I think is a good technique, I don't care whose art it is. I want to learn it.

And pressure points: Yes Virginia, their are pressure points even if there is no santa Claus, there are pressure points all over the body. Maybe you should seek out a MA that practices them and study for a bit. Or maybe not, it might destroy your smugness about the one and only true martial art, yours.

 

[drop bear]

I have ZERO problem with the military systems working with the type of throws shown in the OP video (post#1) It should be understood that short timeframes force multiple aspects and goals to be trained at the same time. A few quick thoughts - Many young people today going into the military have never had a fistfight, never been punched in the nose, and have not had rough and tumble peers (disliking someone on facebook or ignoring a poster on martial talk does not count). Throws like these can be learned and accomplished successfully even while physically and mentally exhausted (which is when they might have to be used and taught) or wounded, and are in fact taught and practiced often right after running thru obstacle courses (such as seen in the background of the video). Throws like these get recruits used to physical interpersonal contact. Throws like these help team bonding especially for those that have not had a lot of roughhouse contact while growing up. Throws like these teach a person that hard contact with the ground does not kill them and that they can get back up forcing a comfort with the ground that military members if deployed must have. Throws like these help recruits learn to lift bodies and to be lifted, which has other than martial aspects (first aid and rescue). Throws like these once practiced can be taught and accomplished in low or no light, restricted vision environments. Practicing in outdoor pits gets recruits and military members used to working in outdoor environments and off the gym mats. Fear of falling is one of the primal fears and repeated throws help to mitigate that sort of fear and thus teach a physical/mental/spiritual lesson about confronting and overcoming a fear.

Regards

Brian King

There are better ways to manage that throw if you are desperate to do it. I will see if I can hunt it down.

Otherwise I still think anything other than turning my back on a guy in a street fight. Even the 1% chance I mess it up will be disastrous.

Here if you get caught you can turn in to a single leg

 

[drop bear]

My first thought was that trolling seems to be more in in your bag of tricks, but on reflection, I think you are just ignorant of most other martial arts capabilities, when they do things that your training can not do. Sorry for you.

Yeah but when I troll I am also making a viable point.. When you try to make a point you are generally just trolling.

Most of those capabilities don't go much past the talking phase.That is why you never see it done live. like those pressure points that make people let go of chokes.

 

[drop bear]

Not cammo, but any and all combat gear. I wish I could encourage you to expand your horizons. But I think your horizons are artificially too close for you to even consider there are things you don't know. You constantly demand to be shown things, to battle test techniques, and yet refuse to evaluate anything beyond your own myopic understanding of your own art. Your lack of training or experience with other arts, and more, your constant attack on other arts simply because you are unable to understand them, makes you look not only uneducated in other arts capabilities, but ignorantly unwilling to learn. That is probably the saddest part. If I see something that I think is a good technique, I don't care whose art it is. I want to learn it.

And pressure points: Yes Virginia, their are pressure points even if there is no santa Claus, there are pressure points all over the body. Maybe you should seek out a MA that practices them and study for a bit. Or maybe not, it might destroy your smugness about the one and only true martial art, yours.

And this is the sort of argument that always bugs me. The things I don't know. I don't know. doesn't mean I have to believe any old rubbish.

"How was the universe created?"

"No idea."

"Then it must be God."

Um.... well no. You can't just insert your own reality whenever you want.

And by the way Grappling is basically all pressure points.

Spend some time under a fat guy with his knee in your neck and you will understand the smugness others show when you mention pressure points.