What is circle punch?

[JowGaWolf]

When the bag starts swinging some, you NEVER get 100% in and out, so you get the sliding surface even if you hit a perfect straight punch.

The only time I had the problem that you are having is when I was hitting the bag incorrectly or with bad timing. Once I got those things corrected, the worst that happened to my knuckles were that my knuckles would eventually get red and bruised from the impact. There are certain points during the swing of a bag that I strike, so I'm always timing the swing and movement of the bag. If the bag is swinging a lot then the punches may be pushing the bag. To reduce the pushing of the bag you want to focus on getting your fist off of the bag at the right moment.

Here are some things that help me. When I hit the bag, I imagine I'm hitting the center of the bag. Once I reach the center I remove my fist. The reason visualize me hitting the center is that if I'm in a fight, I don't want to punch the stomach muscles. I want to punch the organs behind the stomach muscles.

The other thing that helps me is that I imagine that the bag is red hot. So I want to punch the center of the bag, but I don't want my fist to be on the bag for too long. Even if I'm punching light, I'm still visualizing hitting the center of the bag and that the bag is hot. You can almost think of it similar to a hot bucket of water. With a coin that is in the middle. You want to quickly get to the middle to grab the coin and then quickly remove your hand so that the water will stop burning. You don't want to go beyond the middle, because the water will burn you longer than necessary.

Lastly and more importantly, I am 5'5", I have to learn to punch up.

Always train to punch your head level. Even if a person is taller than you , their ribs, kidneys, and liver will still be in good punching range. I've seen many people take a good head punch, but I've rarely seen anyone walk away from a good liver or kidney punch. At 5'5" you should be trying to make that your target. Ribs and everything below should be your advantage.

Just because the head is up high doesn't mean it's good to still try to punch the head. Training to punch up will cause you to develop bad punching skills and incorrect punches. If you want to learn how to punch the head of someone taller than you, then I recommend using a circular punch. like the ones used out of Choy Li Fut. Big punches allow you to punch higher up without sacrificing good punching technique because the punches travel in a big circle

5'5 is a good height as you are already lower than many of your opponents. Use the advantages associated with being lower than your opponent.

It's so so much easier to punch a good looking straight punch to the neck level. Look at the video, a lot of his punches are to the neck, not to the face level even for his height.

Don't be so focused on hitting the face. You are 5'5" there's not much opportunity in that if someone much taller than you. There is a lot more you can attack that's lower than the face.

Back to the circle punch, when you hit the bag that is moving ( like in the video), the bag is going to rub the skin even if you circle punch perfectly.

You aren't looking for a perfect punch. You are looking for an appropriate well timed punch

You taller people take for granted and might not know how hard to punch up. Try it and you'll see. For shorter people like me, If I punch to my neck level, that's punching the upper chest of a tall guy!!! For what?

I'm 5'9. most people are taller than me. When they are taller than me, then I don't punch up. I attack their lower body because I know they can't defend it as quickly because of there height. I don't try to punch for their face because it puts me into a bad position to reach out to them. Sometimes you can make taller guys crouch and that's when you go for the head, but if they don't lower their head then go for it.

Things that are within your range even with taller people. (Ribs, kidney, liver, abdomen, heart, legs, knees, feet, neck.) The only thing that is out of your range is the head. But there are a lot of great options beyond just the head.

 

[Alan0354]

The only time I had the problem that you are having is when I was hitting the bag incorrectly or with bad timing. Once I got those things corrected, the worst that happened to my knuckles were that my knuckles would eventually get red and bruised from the impact. There are certain points during the swing of a bag that I strike, so I'm always timing the swing and movement of the bag. If the bag is swinging a lot then the punches may be pushing the bag. To reduce the pushing of the bag you want to focus on getting your fist off of the bag at the right moment.
That's the very thing that I have a different opinion. Remember the real opponent is not going to be stationary and wait for you to time. He is going to move around, in and out, left and right. The key to me is to be able to acquire the position as fast as possible, manage to stick it in and out. So I never wait to time to get into the best position. In fact, that's the reason I have TWO kicking bags as seen on the video I posted for cane practice. About 7 years ago, I hanged the second bag, I punch and kick one bag, immediately turn to the other and do the punching and kicking sequence, then immediately turn back to the first bag and acquire the distance and punch and kick and make sure I can go in and out, focusing a few inches into the bag and then pull back the punch like you describe later in your post. Particularly include the kicks, it always make the bag swing wildly, making it much harder to time and do good punches. BUT, this is closer to real life where you don't know where the opponent moves and have to adapt.


Here are some things that help me. When I hit the bag, I imagine I'm hitting the center of the bag. Once I reach the center I remove my fist. The reason visualize me hitting the center is that if I'm in a fight, I don't want to punch the stomach muscles. I want to punch the organs behind the stomach muscles.

The other thing that helps me is that I imagine that the bag is red hot. So I want to punch the center of the bag, but I don't want my fist to be on the bag for too long. Even if I'm punching light, I'm still visualizing hitting the center of the bag and that the bag is hot. You can almost think of it similar to a hot bucket of water. With a coin that is in the middle. You want to quickly get to the middle to grab the coin and then quickly remove your hand so that the water will stop burning. You don't want to go beyond the middle, because the water will burn you longer than necessary.


Always train to punch your head level. Even if a person is taller than you , their ribs, kidneys, and liver will still be in good punching range. I've seen many people take a good head punch, but I've rarely seen anyone walk away from a good liver or kidney punch. At 5'5" you should be trying to make that your target. Ribs and everything below should be your advantage.
Ha ha, that would be advantage to me. Tall guy might be relax in protecting the head because I am short. Might not expect a short head hunter!!! Punching up is so much harder, when I punch at shoulder neck level, it's too easy!!!
Just because the head is up high doesn't mean it's good to still try to punch the head. Training to punch up will cause you to develop bad punching skills and incorrect punches. If you want to learn how to punch the head of someone taller than you, then I recommend using a circular punch. like the ones used out of Choy Li Fut. Big punches allow you to punch higher up without sacrificing good punching technique because the punches travel in a big circle

5'5 is a good height as you are already lower than many of your opponents. Use the advantages associated with being lower than your opponent.
I punch high and low. I practice mixing high and low.

Don't be so focused on hitting the face. You are 5'5" there's not much opportunity in that if someone much taller than you. There is a lot more you can attack that's lower than the face.


You aren't looking for a perfect punch. You are looking for an appropriate well timed punch


I'm 5'9. most people are taller than me. When they are taller than me, then I don't punch up. I attack their lower body because I know they can't defend it as quickly because of there height. I don't try to punch for their face because it puts me into a bad position to reach out to them. Sometimes you can make taller guys crouch and that's when you go for the head, but if they don't lower their head then go for it.

Things that are within your range even with taller people. (Ribs, kidney, liver, abdomen, heart, legs, knees, feet, neck.) The only thing that is out of your range is the head. But there are a lot of great options beyond just the head.

Please read my response in blue in the quote.

I want to specify, I don't have problem peeling skin on my big knuckles throwing punches even if the bag is swinging wildly as I described. I practice bare knuckle for a long time, I barely get it red. It's only when I do circle punches when I never use the second knuckles to hit the bag, that's when it hurts. Like I said, my bones and joints can take it just fine, I used to punching poles, it's the skin that never gone through the abuse. It's normal, just wait till it heel up next week and it'll get tougher.

These are all talk, anyone that do a lot of punching and have not done bare knuckle punching a heavy bag for a long time? Try do rounds on the bag like in the Choy Li Fut video bare knuckles. Let's see how many minutes the skin last before tearing. Just be careful and check frequently. Sometimes you might not feel it after the skin breaks. Keep punching after that, it will hurt later on!!!


We are on and off talking about adding a 3rd car garage. We only have two cars and barely drive enough to keep it alive. We are not buying another car, it's mainly for workout and my machine shop. Then I can put the two kicking bags farther apart to make it even harder to hit. Or even put a slam-man as 3rd target. Also, I can put weight equipment for weight lifting. Our problem is we have not decided where we are going to stay in the long run. We might want to move closer to the family 40miles up North towards San Francisco. We are living in the Silicon Valley now. Until we decide that, we don't want to add the 3rd garage. that would be very nice!!!

 

[Alan0354]

May I ask

- Who taught you the iron palm training?
- Did you use the iron palm medicine when you train?

If only iron palm actually works, that will completely change the scene of MMA and UFC. Grabbling would not be so dominant. Look at these two videos on take down defense particular the one up against the cage in the Octagon.

In the first video, you sprawl and keep your center of gravity on top of the opponent instead of falling backwards. The back of the opponent is in perfect spot for iron palm to hit on the kidney or just the back bone and injure the opponent IF iron palm can actually work.

The second video is even more obvious. How many times you see the grabbler push the opponent to the wall of the cage and at a stand still for a long time trying to take down the opponent? You can actually take your time, aim and use your "chi" and give a good iron palm strike to disable the grabbler. You have the cage to help you. Hell, if only iron palm is NOT SUCH A SCAM, people easily change the whole scene of the UFC. Gracie would not be famous, Chinese Kung Fu would be revere in MMA instead of completely vanished.

That's the reason I committed to Iron Palm starting in 1994 thinking this would be a game changer. What a mistake, 3 long years.

 

[Alan0354]

I finally have a chance to try out circle punch. I actually saw it in slow motion a fighter throwing a circle punch with thumbs almost pointing downward like the video I posted in post #1. So I guess there are more than one way of circle punch. I tried that, I don't like it, I felt my elbow is more locked, meaning I would be putting more stress on the elbow and might be easier to injure myself. This one definitely out for me.

I tried punching with the second knuckles like GowGaWolf suggested, It felt good punching the bag but sadly opened up the wound on the second knuckle I peeled last week(not completely healed yet). But it felt good punching. Problem is it was the first time I tried circle punch on the 6X6 pole, that HURTS!!! It's going to take a while to toughen up the second knuckle!!! Painful!!! Problem is it has to be done because you can easily hit on the skull of the opponent as he is going to move around. That will hurt almost just as much as hitting the wood pole.

I tried Ridge Hand to compare, the feel is almost the same as circle punch like GowGaWolf suggested. I hit with the wrist joint which is a lot bigger and tougher than the second knuckles, I have been hitting the wood pole with Ridge hand already, it's a lot safer in this sense that my wrist joint can take some abuse.

I am going to give hitting with the second knuckles a little more time and see before I decide which way to go.

BTW, I freeze frame on UFC fights to look at the gloves, The gloves don't seem to cover the second knuckles. Is that the reason circle punch is used so often because it is truly bare knuckle hitting and more effective in knocking down the opponent? Ridge hand is lass effective because the wrist is padded and it's not going to hurt as much. Ridge hand can really be used like circle punch far as I concern, it's the same movement.

If I can just toughen the second knuckles, I like the circle punch better than Ridge Hand for sure. Just the second knuckles is so small!!!

 

[geezer]

If only iron palm actually works, that will completely change the scene of MMA and UFC. Grabbling would not be so dominant
...That's the reason I committed to Iron Palm starting in 1994 thinking this would be a game changer. What a mistake, 3 long years.

I did a little bit of iron palm training back in '79-'80. Didn't get very good, and don't remember too much about it except that if you strip away all the mysticism, chi, liniments, and ritualistic bag-hitting regimens there was some good stuff there involving using relaxed strikes, weight drop, using body structure and kinetic linkages, and so forth to develop power. And, of course the gradual hand conditioning so that you could strike hard without damaging yourself.

The problem is, the body structures involved to develop the striking power were not very applicable to fighting. Especially, if you are off balance, on the ground, or underneath. So my take away is that "iron palm" is kinda-sorta real, but just not very practical.

Short-power is a real thing though. And very practical. Good boxers train it. My old escrima coach (also a former boxer) is in his 70s and he still has it. That's the real "iron palm"(without the silly hand conditioning).

As my old WT teacher said, "All that conditioning is stupid. You want to hit like iron? Get a hammer!"

 

[Alan0354]

I did a little bit of iron palm training back in '79-'80. Didn't get very good, and don't remember too much about it except that if you strip away all the mysticism, chi, liniments, and ritualistic bag-hitting regimens there was some good stuff there involving using relaxed strikes, weight drop, using body structure and kinetic linkages, and so forth to develop power. And, of course the gradual hand conditioning so that you could strike hard without damaging yourself.

The problem is, the body structures involved to develop the striking power were not very applicable to fighting. Especially, if you are off balance, on the ground, or underneath. So my take away is that "iron palm" is kinda-sorta real, but just not very practical.

Short-power is a real thing though. And very practical. Good boxers train it. My old escrima coach (also a former boxer) is in his 70s and he still has it. That's the real "iron palm"(without the silly hand conditioning).

As my old WT teacher said, "All that conditioning is stupid. You want to hit like iron? Get a hammer!"

What you described about relaxed strikes, using body from waist to shoulder to drop down are the basic stuffs same as punching. These are things you learn at the beginning. After that, there is NO mystery about Iron palm. It's is not as if there are some magic about Iron palm. That's the reason I said I did not hit any harder after 3 years because I learned NOTHING NEW. I got all those from punching the heavy bag years ago and don't have to ruin both of my hands.

Those stupid people talk really big about iron palm, glorifying it. They even talk about iron body by beating the body and rub with those stupid medicine. There are so so many BS in the Kung Fu circle it's not funny. I am so glad we have Xu Ziaodong taking on the Kung Fu masters and eat them up. He better be careful or he might disappear one day. There are a $20K price to anyone that can beat him in China. So far, he's still alive and talking trash.

BTW, if you just hit like iron palm but with closed fist like hammer fist, it hits harder and you don't have to hit the ball bearings 4 or 5 times a week for years with the palm that cause irreversible damage to your hands. That, I still practice hammer fist on the heavy bag. Try it, you can hit quite hard and is useful in some situation to the face.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

BTW, if you just hit like iron palm but with closed fist like hammer fist,

To hit on the collar bone, the palm edge strike is still better than the hammer fist.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

My SC teacher like to use palm heel strike. He liked to use palm heel to hit on the table during MA discussion.

My long fist teacher has developed iron palm. He is 93 years old now and he has never used it on anybody in his life. He told me that in few years his hands were shaking and could not even hold on chopsticks. I do believe there is some risk there.

I have spend many years in iron palm training. I have used my favor hook punch and knocked down many challengers. But I have never used iron palm in any sparring, or challenge fight. Sometime I just think it's such a big waste of my training time.

As far as I know the iron palm finger tips training can be bad for the eyes. Also the back iron palm training can be dangerous for the blood vessel.

I still train my iron palm edge striking. One day when I no longer be able to use my fist, at least I can still use my palm edge. People ask me if I still do my chop chop stuff. I still do my chop chop stuff daily.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

The most maddening thing is 3 years, 4 days/wk, ruining both carpal tunnel, I don't think I hit harder than from day one.

I don't think iron palm training is really meant to increase the power of your strikes. My understanding is that it's intended to toughen your hands so that you can throw more powerful strikes without injuring yourself. Training to generate that power has to be done separately.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Problem is it was the first time I tried circle punch on the 6X6 pole, that HURTS!!! It's going to take a while to toughen up the second knuckle!!! Painful!!! Problem is it has to be done because you can easily hit on the skull of the opponent as he is going to move around. That will hurt almost just as mu

Using specific techniques with this fist will greatly reduce any chance of accidently striking the skull. There's no need to bone hardening with these punches. A punching bag should provide enough conditioning. Start with light punches and only increase power as knuckle conditioning is improved. I personally wouldn't strike wood with these knuckles for conditioning.

When punching straight people will naturally tilt their head. When punching to the side of the head people will turn their head exposing more soft areas. Provided that the see it in time. Most don't

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I tried punching with the second knuckles

When you throw a circle punch, your whole arm is a weapon.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Problem is it was the first time I tried circle punch on the 6X6 pole, that HURTS!!! It's going to take a while to toughen up the second knuckle!!! Painful!!! Problem is it has to be done because you can easily hit on the skull of the opponent as he is going to move around. That will hurt almost just as mu

Using specific techniques with this fist will greatly reduce any chance of accidently striking the skull. There's no need to bone hardening with these punches. A punching bag should provide enough conditioning. Start with light punches and only increase power as knuckle conditioning is improved. I personally wouldn't strike wood with these knuckles for conditioning.

When punching straight people will naturally tilt their head. When punching to the side of the head people will turn their head exposing more soft areas. Provided that the person sees it in time. Most don't

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When punching to the side of the head people will turn their head exposing more soft areas.

This is why one should train circle punch combo such as

- hook, back fist,
- hook, uppercut,
- hook, overhand,
- hook, horizontal hammer fist.
- ...

 

[JowGaWolf]

I am going to give hitting with the second knuckles a little more time and see before I decide which way to go.

I'll show you how I train to hit with those knuckles. It seems like you may be doing something incorrectly. You shouldn't be feeling the pain and getting the damage that you are getting. I have a punching bag and some punching mitts that I can demonstrate the correct training.

 

[Alan0354]

I don't think iron palm training is really meant to increase the power of your strikes. My understanding is that it's intended to toughen your hands so that you can throw more powerful strikes without injuring yourself. Training to generate that power has to be done separately.

If it is just for toughening the hand, once a week 5 minutes is plenty, or twice and 2 minutes. I do a lot of hand conditioning by punching the 6X6 wood pole for years and I am still doing it every week now. I practice once a week, 10 punches on the big two knuckles each hand, 10 on the last two knuckles. Then 10 on each elbow, 10 ridge hand on each hand and 10 hammer fist. Then 10 low shin kicks to the pole each leg to end the session. I have tremendous improvements doing this only once a week. I actually feel I hit harder on the heavy bag because the joints don't give anymore.

Their iron palm prescription is like 5 or 10 minutes 3 times a day. I injured my hands doing only one time a day 4 days a week. This is the very definition of OCD. Then they glorify it's like magic. There's no magic. Time is much better spent on practicing other things.

Last but just as important, try using the same motion of iron palm, but use hammer fist instead. You will find you hit harder than just the palm. Both are NOT that strong, at least hammer fist hit harder and you don't need to pound the ball bearings every day. Just the law of physics, you hit with the same amount of force, the smaller the area of contact, the higher the pressure it is. The area of the hammer fist is a lot smaller than an open palm. It's just simple physics.

 

[Alan0354]

I'll show you how I train to hit with those knuckles. It seems like you may be doing something incorrectly. You shouldn't be feeling the pain and getting the damage that you are getting. I have a punching bag and some punching mitts that I can demonstrate the correct training.

I think the skull is a lot harder than the heavy bag. Haha, I even tried knocking on my own head to proof!!! Believe me, I used the stuffings from the old kicking bags that I broke from punching to stuff at least the top part of the bag to make it harder, still, it's not like the skull.

I make it a point to choose the hardest kicking bag, ( I found Everlast to last the longest, tried Tuffwear, and another brand I don't remember, they don't last) but the top part where I punch is still very soft. I have to take the old stuffing from the broken to stuff it harder.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think the skull is a lot harder than the heavy bag. Haha, I even tried knocking on my own head to proof!!! Believe me, I used the stuffings from the old kicking bags that I broke from punching to stuff at least the top part of the bag to make it harder, still, it's not like the skull.

I make it a point to choose the hardest kicking bag, ( I found Everlast to last the longest, tried Tuffwear, and another brand I don't remember, they don't last) but the top part where I punch is still very soft. I have to take the old stuffing from the broken to stuff it harder.

But you don't need the hardest bag to toughen the skin on the knuckles. The skin will toughen up the more strikes that are done on the bag.

It's sort of like walking without shoes. The more you walk outside without shoes the tougher the skin will get. The skin of the feet will become tough without having to stomp the ground as hard as you can. The conditioning of the skin for the knuckles will do the same thing. It's not the same process as increasing the bone density of bone. That's a different process.

To get that extra layer of skin on those knuckles you start by hitting the bag lightly working driving the impact directly into the bag. Then remove your knuckles from the bag without scraping the or sliding them across the bag. If you do it correctly and not hit the bag too hard then you should be able to do this almost everyday without causing damage.. The skin will start building a thicker layer of skin without deforming the knuckle.

This type of durability isn't needed and you probably will cause more damage than anything else in the process.

The knuckles just need to be hard enough to break ribs, damage organs and break facial bone. A well placed punch does more damage than a brute force one that is thrown with concern of the target that you want to hit.

 

[Alan0354]

But you don't need the hardest bag to toughen the skin on the knuckles. The skin will toughen up the more strikes that are done on the bag.

It's sort of like walking without shoes. The more you walk outside without shoes the tougher the skin will get. The skin of the feet will become tough without having to stomp the ground as hard as you can. The conditioning of the skin for the knuckles will do the same thing. It's not the same process as increasing the bone density of bone. That's a different process.

To get that extra layer of skin on those knuckles you start by hitting the bag lightly working driving the impact directly into the bag. Then remove your knuckles from the bag without scraping the or sliding them across the bag. If you do it correctly and not hit the bag too hard then you should be able to do this almost everyday without causing damage.. The skin will start building a thicker layer of skin without deforming the knuckle.

This type of durability isn't needed and you probably will cause more damage than anything else in the process.

The knuckles just need to be hard enough to break ribs, damage organs and break facial bone. A well placed punch does more damage than a brute force one that is thrown with concern of the target that you want to hit.

Ha ha, I am not crazy to punch a metal pole like this guy!!! I don't think I punch quite as hard, the wood pole do bounce and give a little. Also I don't punch that many times. only 10 times each hand. My hands look fine. You can see the spot I circled is the part the skin scraped off from circle punches. Funny I have a spot on the pinky as pointed by arrow that I got punching the heavy bag.

I don't punch that much, only once a week and heavy bag twice a week. The key is moderation and build up slowly.

I am too lazy to move the car out, I need the space to position the camera to take the video of punching. Maybe in a few days.

Like I said, the opponent moves around, even those people in UFC would be happy to just manage to hit the head of the opponent, they cannot afford to be choosy not to hit the skull, only the soft part!!! I don't believe in timing it to make the perfect punch so I don't scrape the skin. I make the bag move, I am aiming to stick the punch into the bag when the bag moves, make the pop sound, pull back fast and move the bag as little as possible and as quick as possible. I am not going to take the time to hit at the perfect spot at the perfect timing. Look at the video you posted on the Choy Lei Fut punching, it's a sequence of multiple punches, the key is to make the punch stick into the bag like in the video and the bag not swing wildly. You punch bare knuckle like in the video. if you are not used to bare knuckle punching, you will scrape your skin in minutes. I can guaranty you on this. If you have not punch bare knuckle like that for a few months( even you did that before), you will peel your skin.

 

[Alan0354]

I watched UFC Hall vs Strickland last night. Sean Strickland used circle punchs like what was shown in post #1 of this thread repeatedly throughout the fight. I use slow motion frame by frame to watch where the thumb at contact, the thumb was almost pointing down( more like 45deg down to be exact).

I am so mad today. I almost recovered from the scrap last week and started on my circle punches, then I accidentally scrapped my left big knuckle on the wood pole when I was trying to hit the bag with a hook punch. That's the problem when the space is not big enough. Not a big scrape, but still I have to watch out on that. More sat back!!! I really need a 3rd car garage!!! Just for workout.

 

[JowGaWolf]

ean Strickland used circle punchs like what was shown in post #1 of this thread repeatedly throughout the fight. I use slow motion frame by frame to watch where the thumb at contact, the thumb was almost pointing down( more like 45deg down to be exact).

That's because he only knows how to hit with the first knuckes of his hand. If you watch closely you will see that one of his circular punches landed on the front of the skull. If thew the punch the way that I described all of the punches would have landed on the side of the head and not the front of the head. You can also see that he missed a lot of those punches as well.

Swinging like this will result in a weaker punch and an easier punch to see.

When punching straight people will naturally tilt their head. When punching to the side of the head people will turn their head exposing more soft areas. Provided that the person sees it in time. Most don't

Had he used the swinging method that I've been champion then this would have been a knock out. This shows what I stated earlier (above). He turns his head and exposes the back of his head. Using the technique I've been telling you would have easily resulted in a KO and maybe death? Because now the punch is landing on the back of the head.

But because he uses this "thumbs down" technique. The punch doesn't land solid. @ 3:08. It was a weak punch.

Here we see another reason this punch is weak. Elbow is leading the punch. This is extremely telegraphed and this time Hall ducks under it. If this was a circular punch like I've been promoting then it would be possible to still land the punch even if he ducked.

This is what happens when my sparring partners try to duck. Take note that my arm doesn't have that unnatural bend. I'm hitting with the same knuckles you keep scraping up lol.

She ducks under a hook punch. Because that's what she had for lunch the 6 or 7 previous punches. Normally if I was throwing a hook it would have landed right about here. But because of how I throw my circular punches. My horizontal punches start the same way that my vertical punches start.

I because of punching with thumb up, It doesn't take much to turn my horizontal punch into a vertical punch and landing it on the weaker parts of the the head.

I know you keep trying to find some truth in MMA with this punch, but I'm telling you there are a lot of draw backs to trying to do this type of punch with thumb down. Don't let the fact that my sparring partner is female devalue the lesson or skill. She used to fight competitively and she knew how to throw a punch some of which I ate and my knees buckled.

If I were you I would ignore anything that demonstrates doing this punch with thumbs down. If you still want to punch with thumb down simply because you see in MMA then just be prepared to deal with the injuries that you'll get from punching like that.

I am so mad today. I almost recovered from the scrap last week and started on my circle punches, then I accidentally scrapped my left big knuckle on the wood pole when I was trying to hit the bag with a hook punch. That's the problem when the space is not big enough.

Change the length of the punch to fit the space. Circular punches can be small in length or long in length. I train in small spaces just to explore the limits of this type of punch. The smallest area that I've been able swing this punch is a 3'5" x 3'5" area. I'm 5'9" so If I can do this punch in an area that small then you should be able to do it there. But again that's thumbs up and not thumbs down.