What is circle punch?

[Bill Mattocks]

Nah it's a Hung Fist. lol.. I'm pretty sure of it. lol.

.View attachment 26995

Just giving you a hard time because I know we use the same fist. This is also a Isshinryu fist as well. Sometimes 2 things are the same thing with a different name.

Bill the only reason you are cool with me is because you use this fist lol. I think we are the only 2 out of this forum who uses this fist structure.

This sounds like a linear punch. We use the same knuckles that you describe with the same fist, but only with linear punches. In Hung Ga, Choy Li Fut, and Jow Ga and some other circular systems. This fist uses 5 strike surfaces.

1. The frist knuckles, The one that you described for linear punches
2. The second knuckles, The ones' I circled.
3. The base of the fist (the one you described for hammer fists)
4. The total surface of the palm and the knuckle
5. The thumb.

I can flow in and out of linear strikes, hammer fists, and hit with various sides of the fist without changing structure. For me personally, I think this is a better fist than the common fist that most people simply because of all of the options for striking.

Agreed!

We may not use the same punches you do, but we can and do use the above diagrammed surfaces to strike with. As you said, the top two knuckles are for linear punches.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Maybe it's more accurate for me to say that Choy Li Fut is a southern system with Long fist techniques?

Agreed!

View attachment 26998

We may not use the same punches you do, but we can and do use the above diagrammed surfaces to strike with. As you said, the top two knuckles are for linear punches.

Best fist in the world. Tell them that JowGaWolf and Bill Mattocks said so.

 

[JowGaWolf]

We probably need a Choy Lay Fut person.

When I watch that video, my reference points kept going back to some of the things I've seen in Jow Ga, which doesn't help.

Didn't do deep on the validity of the website Source: What You Should Know About Choy Li Fut Kung Fu
"There are several types of hand strikes within the art, including those that connect from the fist, open hand, claw hand and more. Kicks are also used in Choy Li Fut. The Long Fist and Buddhist Palm boxing styles are taught as part of this style as well. "

This is stuff that I've often heard from people who do Choy Li Fut maybe there is some cross over. A teacher that knows both northern and southern systems?

Southern Long Fist? I'm just grasping for straws at this point lol. The only thing I do know is that things get added to systems that weren't originally there during the early decades of a system.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Southern Long Fist? I'm just grasping for straws at this point lol. The only thing I do know is that things get added to systems that weren't originally there during the early decades of a system.

It could also be that Long Fist has become a general term.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When you throw a circular punch, you can also strike with the forearm and the wrist bone - my favor.

 

[drop bear]

Wow. he put all of his weight into that one. He must have seen that opening a mile a way and knew it would be there.

Because of the angle it is a bit safer than it looks

 

[Flying Crane]

Don't hit the heavy bag with those knuckles. You want to hit punching mits with those knuckles or a lighter bag. An adult head weighs about 11 lbs so you don't want to hit anything that's heavier than that with these set of knuckles. You can how ever hit heavy bag with the larger area the palm, but don't try to kill it because I don't know if your punching structure is correct. You can injure your elbow or shoulder if the structure of your arm isn't correct.

I do hit the heavy bag. It weight 85 pounds, I’m about 165-170, so it’s roughly half my weight. I cannot hit through the bag, of course. It will not swing far enough. But I can definitely hit into it and it is indeed a powerful punch when you drive it from the feet and legs, and use that torso rotation, not just a swing with the arm. Definitely protect the elbow from hyper-extension. Go easy and figure out what you can safely do.

I like to think of those knuckles digging in behind the enemy’s jaw hinge and just ripping through his face. I think you can wreck a fellow that way.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Because of the angle it is a bit safer than it looks

Oh it didn't look risky to me. I was just nothing that he put a lot of weight into that punch. If someone was trying to "punch a hole in space" it was this guy and that punch lol. Usually (with exceptions) people don't swing that hard unless the can see that punch landing way before they actually throw it, or if they are desperately swinging and hoping they will hit something. I think he just saw that clear opening and knew it would land like that without a doubt. He was all in, on that punch. I would hate to get hit like that.

 

[Flying Crane]

It could also be that Long Fist has become a general term.

I believe it is. There is “northern Longfist system” which refers to a specific system of two, including an Islamic method, and then there is using the term ”long fist” or “long arm” to describe the overall approach to training. I have always described Tibetan White Crane as a “long fist/long arm” method. I believe it is accurate to describe Choy Lay Fut in that manner as well.

 

[Flying Crane]

When you throw a circular punch, you can also strike with the forearm and the wrist bone - my favor.

Agreed. This is a useful variant.

 

[Flying Crane]

I think we are the only 2 out of this forum who uses this fist structure.

Wrong.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I like to think of those knuckles digging in behind the enemy’s jaw hinge and just ripping through his face.

That's exactly like I think of it. Knuckles, digging /stabbing into that jaw hinge. It's not a clubbing feel. For those who are unfamiliar with this, make the fist and slowly put pressure into your jaw where it hinges.

It would be like a baseball bat with a spike on the end.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Wrong.

That's right. How could I forget about you. The next time I hit someone with that fist, I'll tell them Flying Crane sent me. lol

 

[Alan0354]

Here you can see some of the circular punches from long fist against a heavy bag. They look like forearm swings but the aren't He's hitting with that that large are of the palm and knuckles that I highlighted earlier.

Play the video at the slowest speed and you can see where that area of the fists impacts the bag.

Actually circle punch is very much like Tae Kwon Do's Ridge hand that I practice a lot. Just hit with different part of the hand. I have to practice to see which one hit harder. Seems like circle punch is safer for the hand because if you swing the ridge hand and the opponent back up just a little, the finger will hit the opponent and that can hurt the fingers. where as if I shape my hands like you show, the fingers are bent and it should not hurt the fingers.

BTW, I thought punching wood pole is very important to condition the hand. Human head is very hard!!! If the punch misses the face and hit either the front or the side of the head, it's like hitting a coconut!!! One can break the knuckle easily and takes a long time to heal. One time I was breaking boards by punching, all of a sudden, I felt the knuckle collapsed and gave. It hurt like hell and took a long time to recover. The knuckle never looks the same anymore. That's the reason I make it a point to punch 10 times on the pole once a week, 10 of the front two knuckles like regular boxing, 10 times Wing Chun style with the last two knuckles. Not all out punching( that will hurt!!) but control punching just to toughen up the knuckles. I also do Ridge hand on the pole also. 10 times and no more.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I believe it is. There is “northern Longfist system” which refers to a specific system of two, including an Islamic method, and then there is using the term ”long fist” or “long arm” to describe the overall approach to training. I have always described Tibetan White Crane as a “long fist/long arm” method. I believe it is accurate to describe Choy Lay Fut in that manner as well.

Ok. So my head exploded to day. I was reading a conversation of some Jow Ga and other system (unknown) Sifu's talking about Choy Ga. So Jow Ga has Choy Ga forms, Choy Ga has Jow ga Forms, Choy Li Fut has Choy ga Forms. All three systems have those big wheel punches. There is definitely mixing going on within the systems and most likely friends of different systems shared forms with each other. I once knew a Lama Pi form as they have similar movement to Jow Ga The only big noticeable difference is that Lama Pi forms extend in a similar way as Northern Longfist.

 

[Alan0354]

Don't forget Tae Kwon Do's Ridge hand. It is similar also, just hitting with different part of the hand.

It's the idea how to strike that is important, who cares who invented it. Just different variations.

This, I have been practicing all along, no wonder when I followed the circle punch yesterday, it's very natural for me.

One disadvantage of Ridge hand is if the opponent backs off a little, you will hit the head with the index finger instead of the stronger wrist bone or the bone between the knuckle and the wrist of the index finger. That will hurt the fingers. Might be better if you bent all the fingers. Ha ha, if you hold a fist to strike, that will be more similar to the Choy Le Fut style!!!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

as Northern Longfist.

As a Chinese, I have never heard about the term "Northern Longfist". Some long fist guys like to call themselves as "Northern Shaolin". When I had my CMA school, I used the term "Northern Shaolin" because more American know about Shaolin than about long fist. Actually, long fist has nothing to do with the Shaolin temple.

 

[JowGaWolf]

BTW, I thought punching wood pole is very important to condition the hand. Human head is very hard!!! If the punch misses the face and hit either the front or the side of the head, it's like hitting a coconut!!!

You can hit the side of someone's head or the top of someone's head so long as you use the right part of your fist.

This is my son on the left sparring one of the older students. The person on the right is one of our female students who wanted to learn how to fight using kung fu. Some context everyone that trains with me or that I train spars to learn except for one person who was an instructor at the school. So these aren't screenshot of full on slaughters. It's free sparring and the punches are hard enough to give a black eye but that's all. My son is using the ole school open palm martial arts gloves. The gloves are totally useless for the types of punches we do.

Here you see him winding up. Looks like he could get jabbed or elbowed right in the face, but he put enough pressure on her to stay in a defensive position.

Not sure what she was looking at or what she was trying to avoid. I'll have to ask her one day. But my son must have so the opening and knew he could get it.

Comparing her head position with the picture above. I'm going to guess that she didn't see it coming. She's almost in the same position. Maybe she thought she had stop the punch. My son threw 2 punches. The first punch kind of distracts and the second punch sneaks in.

And this is why I encourage "Sparring to learn" People can make mistakes and not "pay a heavy price." At this point. She's getting hit with that larger area of the fist that I circled. Even if this would have landed on the forehead, My son would still be ok, so long as his fist tight and he's hitting with that larger area made of palm and knuckles.

By the way. She brushed it off and "lit my son" and we all had a good laugh including my son. If you try to hit with the knuckles like this then there's a risk of busting a knuckle. I use a basketball to with some of the air let out to train my fist. My son and I kind of play catch like that, doing strikes on the basket ball. We let some of the air out so that it gives a little when we hit it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It's the idea how to strike that is important, who cares who invented it. Just different variations.

IMO, the circle punch has much more usage than just punch.

It can be used as:

- wrist grab.
- downward parry.
- block jab/cross.
- head lock.
- set up for under hook.
- ...

Since the circle punch has more usage than the straight punch, it's much more fun to train.

Here is to use circle punch to grab the wrist.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Don't forget Tae Kwon Do's Ridge hand. It is similar also, just hitting with different part of the hand.

It's the idea how to strike that is important, who cares who invented it. Just different variations.

This, I have been practicing all along, no wonder when I followed the circle punch yesterday, it's very natural for me.

One disadvantage of Ridge hand is if the opponent backs off a little, you will hit the head with the index finger instead of the stronger wrist bone or the bone between the knuckle and the wrist of the index finger. That will hurt the fingers. Might be better if you bent all the fingers. Ha ha, if you hold a fist to strike, that will be more similar to the Choy Le Fut style!!!

That used to be one of my favorite strikes then one day I just stopped doing them without reason.