What I learned after 4 months of punching the heavy bag

[JowGaWolf]

But then, what do you consider basics? Many of the punches I described above are considered basic and fundamental to how our system works.

Basics depends on the system you are training, it won't be the same for all systems. The only thing that they all have in common is that they are foundation skill in which more complex skills are learned.

But then, what do you consider basics?

Basics for me are more numerous than the systems that only have straight punch, jab, reverse punch, hook, upper cut, cross. These are my basics as well but like you have other techniques that are basics as well. They are the foundational skill set that I build upon. I've been working on these basics for 6 months now. Tonight I started to work on my Jow Ga specific basics. my first step was to simply swing my arms and try to relax in the process.

We have a wide enough variety that people can choose to focus on certain techniques and not on others, based on what they are interested in and what they feel works well for them.

A person doesn't have to train all basics. For example, I haven't train Jow Ga basics out side of what I mentioned above. For 6 months it's been those punches and footwork.

 

[JowGaWolf]

ha ha, nobody said it's easy. I can tell you when I read criticism, I had to walk away from the computer, do some other things, calm down before I think more about it. That's human weakness. But I try very hard to look at it objectively to calm myself down. Then just try it anyway.

Reading what people type is always difficult. Sometimes I read in the wrong tone, which makes me think that there is some conflict. I'm not sure, but I feel a little more calm now when replying.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

what do you consider basics?

Alan talks about heavy bag training and doesn't do solo form training in another thread.

In my long fist system, to be able to use your left hand to touch your right foot when kicking is a very important basic training.

If people stop solo form training, and only work on the heavy bag, this basic training may disappear from the face of the earth. It may not affect the fighting ability. But the body flexibility is not pushed to the maximum.

 

[Alan0354]

Alan talks about heavy bag training and doesn't do solo form training in another thread.

In my long fist system, to be able to use your left hand to touch your right foot when kicking is a very important basic training.

If people stop solo form training, and only work on the heavy bag, this basic training may disappear from the face of the earth. It may not affect the fighting ability. But the body flexibility is not pushed to the maximum.

I said I don't do forms doesn't mean I don't practice punching and kicking in combination in air. In fact I do half and half now a days. I just don't like any forms that I know of so far. Forms have a lot of useless moves that to me is a waste of time to even doing it.

I practice combinations like the video I did on the bag in air also, it's not just jab reverse punch, I combine punching and kicking, elbows and knees. I even put in judo. I do similar to that in air to work on smoother transition from one to the other.

There's a lot more freedom doing combination in air. With heavy bag, I have to limit my combination so I can hit the bag as solid as possible. But in air, I can continuous moving forward and backward while doing the combination. They each serve a specific purpose. You never get power unless you hit heavy bag. You don't get speed and smooth transition if you don't do combination in air. You need both, they are working hand in hand.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Basics depends on the system you are training, it won't be the same for all systems. The only thing that they all have in common is that they are foundation skill in which more complex skills are learned.

Basics for me are more numerous than the systems that only have straight punch, jab, reverse punch, hook, upper cut, cross. These are my basics as well but like you have other techniques that are basics as well. They are the foundational skill set that I build upon. I've been working on these basics for 6 months now. Tonight I started to work on my Jow Ga specific basics. my first step was to simply swing my arms and try to relax in the process.


A person doesn't have to train all basics. For example, I haven't train Jow Ga basics out side of what I mentioned above. For 6 months it's been those punches and footwork.

Basic punches we do every single workout include flat, vertical, uppercut, roundhouse, back knuckle roundhouse, overhead, hanging, chopping hammer, lifting, circling knuckle, jab, and hook punches. On sundays we also do all the open hand variations and all elbow variations. That’s just punches. It’s common to shoot upward of 1500 to 2000 punches in a workout. It adds up quick when you do fifty of each on each side. That’s only part of the workout. Now I know everybody has their own name for these things so likely most of you are doing some, if not all of these.

 

[Flying Crane]

Basic punches we do every single workout include flat, vertical, uppercut, roundhouse, back knuckle roundhouse, overhead, hanging, chopping hammer, lifting, circling knuckle, jab, and hook punches. On sundays we also do all the open hand variations and all elbow variations. That’s just punches. It’s common to shoot upward of 1500 to 2000 punches in a workout. It adds up quick when you do fifty of each on each side. That’s only part of the workout. Now I know everybody has their own name for these things so likely most of you are doing some, if not all of these.

Then, after you have worked through them in the simplest fashion, you work through them again in stepping and movement patterns, advancing, retreating, changing directions, in combinations, on the heavy bag, etc.

You can go down that rabbit hole and spend all week there, if you want.

 

[Alan0354]

Basic punches we do every single workout include flat, vertical, uppercut, roundhouse, back knuckle roundhouse, overhead, hanging, chopping hammer, lifting, circling knuckle, jab, and hook punches. On sundays we also do all the open hand variations and all elbow variations. That’s just punches. It’s common to shoot upward of 1500 to 2000 punches in a workout. It adds up quick when you do fifty of each on each side. That’s only part of the workout. Now I know everybody has their own name for these things so likely most of you are doing some, if not all of these.

Interesting, do you have any video on your exercise routine you can show? You do one hand at a time?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Then, after you have worked through them in the simplest fashion, you work through them again in stepping and movement patterns, advancing, retreating, changing directions, in combinations, on the heavy bag, etc.

You can go down that rabbit hole and spend all week there, if you want.

Yep, that is in fact my regular habit. Kick punch combos, three six punch combos even have a repeating ten punch combo we do with cross steps and twist steps and cross, H, and box patterns with both step and low jump. And on and on rinse and repeat. Cal Gon take me away!

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Interesting, do you have any video on your exercise routine you can show? You do one hand at a time?

I don’t normally film. My Sifu was opposed to it. I may do it at some point. I am happy to give you some basic recipes. Foundational basics is my focus. As far as hands, I do singles, doubles, and triples of each punch standing, then deep horse, then while moving deep horse, then with kicks while moving. The back hand is never stagnant. A basic ten punch combo I use is right hand uppercut, left roundhouse, left back knuckle roundhouse, right overhead, right hanging punch, left uppercut, right roundhouse, right back knuckle roundhouse, left overhead, left hanging punch. Just keep looping and repeating and add footwork. Stay low in the stance when you move to work your legs and make sure everything comes from the root. I try to focus on the balance and stability of what im doing. I practice these things over and over so much I could do it drunk or asleep. I feel like having a small number of basic utility tools that I can do flawlessly is more useful than a hundred things I can do with passing or mediocre ability. I focus my efforts on strict adherence to alignment and structure. I want it to be an expression of me, not something I do sometimes. I want to say that I am no Sifu, I am only a student of martial arts, and not the most knowledgeable by any means. Take whatever I say in my opinions or posts with a grain of salt.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Then, after you have worked through them in the simplest fashion, you work through them again in stepping and movement patterns, advancing, retreating, changing directions, in combinations, on the heavy bag, etc.

You can go down that rabbit hole and spend all week there, if you want.

It sounds like you have been watching me.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Forms have a lot of useless moves that to me is a waste of time to even doing it.

All things are useless if you don't understand how to use them.

For someone not familiar with computer communication, OMG or may be undecipherable. Some moves in kata have purpose and meaning not readily seen with an untrained eye.

Post your style, the name of the form and a couple of moves you see as "useless" and I'm sure I, or someone else here, will be able to describe their meaning and practical application.

 

[Flying Crane]

It sounds like you have been watching me.

HA! I’ve been writing the book.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Forms have a lot of useless moves that to me is a waste of time to even doing it.

Or... and I'm just throwing this out there based on your history... maybe you just don't understand those movements.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Or... and I'm just throwing this out there based on your history... maybe you just don't understand those movements.

Entirely possible for me as well. When I watch some other systems do forms I may understand that “it’s a block” but I may question why they do it that way. Not that it’s good or bad, just different from how I might move. I find I can often learn a lot by visiting different schools just to see how they move. I’m not interested in techniques as much as the qualities of movement.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I said I don't do forms doesn't mean I don't practice punching and kicking in combination in air. In fact I do half and half now a days. I just don't like any forms that I know of so far. Forms have a lot of useless moves that to me is a waste of time to even doing it.

I practice combinations like the video I did on the bag in air also, it's not just jab reverse punch, I combine punching and kicking, elbows and knees. I even put in judo. I do similar to that in air to work on smoother transition from one to the other.

There's a lot more freedom doing combination in air. With heavy bag, I have to limit my combination so I can hit the bag as solid as possible. But in air, I can continuous moving forward and backward while doing the combination. They each serve a specific purpose. You never get power unless you hit heavy bag. You don't get speed and smooth transition if you don't do combination in air. You need both, they are working hand in hand.

Ok I agree with most of this. I do feel that many people end up leaning into the heavy bag in a way that builds bad habits. A bag isn’t a person. If you lean in too much as a habit of trying to create more force, a skilled person in a throwing or grappling art can take you to the cleaners if you are unbalanced or improperly aligned. Someone may correct me here but posture, balance and coordination are both offensive and defensive tools that are useful outside of martial arts.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Forms have a lot of useless moves that to me is a waste of time to even doing it.

You shouldn't make a generalized statement like this without giving an example.

What kind of moves are you talking about?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

HA! I’ve been writing the book.

Well I better end up in the footnotes. And I expect a first edition autographed copy.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Entirely possible for me as well. When I watch some other systems do forms I may understand that “it’s a block” but I may question why they do it that way. Not that it’s good or bad, just different from how I might move. I find I can often learn a lot by visiting different schools just to see how they move. I’m not interested in techniques as much as the qualities of movement.

Sure. There are different ways to move and more than one way to reach a given goal. When someone says the moves in forms are "useless" all it really seems to mean is that they lack the training and experience to understand them.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Sure. There are different ways to move and more than one way to reach a given goal. When someone says the moves in forms are "useless" all it really seems to mean is that they lack the training and experience to understand them.

I think that is a fair statement. It is the reason I don’t teach forms until people have a solid and consistent basics practice. Not saying that my way is the only way. It’s easy to make those blanket statements, people do it all the time.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Sure. There are different ways to move and more than one way to reach a given goal. When someone says the moves in forms are "useless" all it really seems to mean is that they lack the training and experience to understand them.

I also think that when people say these things they are giving up their chance to learn. A very common failing in martial arts amongst the accomplished as well as the beginners.