What "God" Do You Worship?

[Bigshadow]

Etymology: Middle English worshipe worthiness, respect, reverence paid to a divine being, from Old English weorthscipe worthiness, respect, from weorth worthy, worth + -scipe -ship
1 chiefly British : a person of importance -- used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)
2 : reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence
3 : a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
4 : extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem <worship of the dollar>

Yes, do pay close attention to #4. It does point this out well, with respect to ESTEEM. I believe ESTEEM in this case could be replaced with EGO.

I draw a big distinction between what I find important in my life (My family above all things) and what I would consider worship. I worship nothing, but I do hold certain things important.

My order of importance is as follows.

1. Self well-being (I cannot be there for family otherwise).
2. Family well-being
3. Money
4. Material items of interest

Of course #1 and #2 are very entertwined and can often be indistinguishable. To me money is nothing more than a necessary evil that must be weilded with caution, because it can pollute the mind and cause imbalance in life.

As for a "god", I have no answer for you. I would venture to say that I believe that all that one needs (spiritually) can be found within the self.

I remember an old saying that went something like this

The only Zen you will find at the top of the mountain, is that which you bring with you.

I am still trying to understand the point and purpose of the thread.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

Well, I didn't say that-and, no matter how imperious, haughty or excessively proud I am, I never would.

No you didn't say that, it just seems to be the underlying theme of many of your posts in this thread. Maybe not even intentionally, but you do seem to speak of other peoples beliefs in a condescending manner which would lead us to thinking that.

Jeff

 

[michaeledward]

Sorry if I offended any atheists. It seems as though I have to keep reminding people to read what I've written, though, rather than take it personally.....

Your premise is faulty. Because of the subjective nature of your starting premise is colored to meet your personal belief structures, all conclusions drawn from that premise are 'fruit of the poison tree', and similarly tainted.

That you appear incapable of including in your premise the idea that "Some believe homo sapiens are the lucky result of random mutation and natural selection, on a random planet, in an unspectacular galaxy, in a wonderfully, almost infinite universe."

There is a logical fallacy in there somewhere ... if not A, then B ... or something like that, I think.

Again, even worse, THE teacher of Christianity tells us, essentially, to mind our own business.

 

[beau_safken]

Hmmm how to respond.

Well honestly, I just don't care. Until I can see it and feel it...I can't believe it. I do think that more or less that KArma is in most things we do and say. So I guess I'm a little more eastern in my thoughts, but western in my "not giving a **** about organized religion."

All one their own...I just think god would much rather have people leave him alone on the weekends also.

 

[shesulsa]

Moderator Note:

Thread moved to Philosophy/Spirituality.

G Ketchmark / shesulsa
MT Sr. Moderator

 

[Ray]

I was once at a party where the host asked me not to mention God. I’m not sure why I even showed up at their home.

Assuming you were invited (and not a party-crasher) and not told before arriving not to mention God: Then what was the hosts motivation in asking you not to mention God?

Was it because the host is offended by the mere mention of God? If so, then he/she must know that they have offended you in the same manner as they would themselves be offended.

Was it because the host had some other guests who would be offended by the mention of God? If so, then those guests must be more important to the host; else why would the host not worrying about offending you?

If the host told you at invitation time not to mention God, then you should either have not gone; or gone and respected their wishes. You could even have fulfilled your "witnessing" duty by declining the invitation with an explanation about how important God is in your life.

Your saying that everyone "worships" something/someone has certainly been argued strongly against. It might have been better to say that everyone has something that they devote time/money/etc to (an object of devotion)...The idea may be the same or similar but the color of the words may aid in getting your idea across.

I worship the God of Abraham and Isaac.

 

[Ray]

Again, even worse, THE teacher of Christianity tells us, essentially, to mind our own business.

Which teacher of Christianity and what reference?

According to my limited understanding of Christianity, my interest should be the self-interest of others (i.e. I should be interested in the needs of others – and that should be the business I am minding).

 

[Makalakumu]

And one has to wonder which part offended those of you who choose to believe in no god, that I've observed that some of you-though, no one here, at least, not yet-"worship" rational materialism...

That would be me. I "believe" in science (believe is too strong of a word). I think that it is the only way that can truly know anything about the world. I find it hard to trust things I cannot sense in some way (and sometimes this extends to things that I have not sense personally). Therefore, the concept of a God, unless it can be shown to me with real evidence, is irrellevent in my life.

Further, I would argue that my insistence upon rational materialism as an epistomologic system is not really worship at all. One can use this system to understand the world without veneration of any sorts. If somebody says they believe in God and I respond with a question about what evidence they use to justify that belief, it is nothing but an inquiry.

 

[elder999]

Your premise is faulty. Because of the subjective nature of your starting premise is colored to meet your personal belief structures, all conclusions drawn from that premise are 'fruit of the poison tree', and similarly tainted.

That you appear incapable of including in your premise the idea that "Some believe homo sapiens are the lucky result of random mutation and natural selection, on a random planet, in an unspectacular galaxy, in a wonderfully, almost infinite universe."

There is a logical fallacy in there somewhere ... if not A, then B ... or something like that, I think.

Again, even worse, THE teacher of Christianity tells us, essentially, to mind our own business.

1) What, exactly, is my "personal belief structure?" Or what is it you infer about it from my "starting premise?"

2) For the record, I'm not a Christian-at least, not in any conventional sense: while I have a great deal of love and respect for teachings of the Rabbi Yeshua, I'm not a Christian-not really sure there's a label that could apply to my religious practices...

Also for the record, though-I did say, and it's true, that I have met a few genuine atheists, and I'll add that for the most part they were genuinely nice people. I'm not selling the idea that you have to believe in a god, or that if you don't, you won't get to heaven, or anything like that-all I'm saying, in the larger scheme of things, is that most of us do "bend our knees" to something, whether we're aware of it or not, and one should question what that someting is.

I'm just posing a question-perhaps in a way designed to "rattle people's cages"-but posing a question for people to ask themselves, and answer here, or not-what you believe, or don't believe-in the words of Thomas Jefferson,Neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. I'm only curious about such things.Sorry if my curiousity forced some uncomfortable self-examination on anyone's part, or brought up anger in that I who have met very few true atheists, would dare to presume that all the other people I'd met who claimed to be atheists were, in fact, not atheists at all. Not that I said that about anyone here, though-I wouldn'
t be so presmptuous, though, apparently it's okay for you to presume that I do.....

I shouldn't want to make the world you live in any larger, should I?

 

[elder999]

Which teacher of Christianity and what reference?

According to my limited understanding of Christianity, my interest should be the self-interest of others (i.e. I should be interested in the needs of others &#8211; and that should be the business I am minding).

I think that's Matthew, 7:3:
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

But I've been wrong before........

 

[Ray]

I think that's Matthew, 7:3:
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

But I've been wrong before........

And again this time. That is not "mind your own business and do nothing" That is "do not judge unrighteously." I believe if you'll review the documentation, that Christ was certainly in favor of people doing for others. Doing for others is definately not "minding your own business."

example: review Matthew 25:26 - 25:45.

 

[elder999]

And again this time. That is not "mind your own business and do nothing" That is "do not judge unrighteously." I believe if you'll review the documentation, that Christ was certainly in favor of people doing for others. Doing for others is definately not "minding your own business."

example: review Matthew 25:26 - 25:45.

Oh, I know that-I just imagine that that's what Michael meant......I could be wrong, though.....

 

[Ray]

"When you pray, go into your closet, and let not your left hand know what your right hand is doing."

Watch ye therefore, and pray always..." Luke 21:36

"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."

"I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men." D&C 64:10

... someone who posts a question with an anectdote about not being able to speak the word 'God' at a party, may not have absorbed the meaning of those lessons in the same way in which I have.

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matt 5:16

 

[michaeledward]

Which teacher of Christianity and what reference?

I am referring to Jesus ... Joshua ben Joseph ... from the quotes I referenced above. I am sure there are others.

 

[michaeledward]

And again this time. That is not "mind your own business and do nothing" That is "do not judge unrighteously." I believe if you'll review the documentation, that Christ was certainly in favor of people doing for others. Doing for others is definately not "minding your own business."

example: review Matthew 25:26 - 25:45.

Certainly, doing for others is not, minding your business. But, does doing for others, according to the scriptures, mandate that one only do for others that believe as you do?

[paraphrase] What does it profit a man whom loves his friends? For even they do that. I say, you should love your enemies.[/paraphrase]

The premise that 'Everyone worships something', means that all the world is in the group of 'friends' in the above paraphrase.

Does 'doing for others' mean bludgeoning them to your belief system?

That was not my take away.

 

[elder999]

Some atheists -I&#8217;ll mention no names, yet-seem to get downright angry at the notion of a deity. I recently ran across a quote from George Orwell, which might be appropriate for their situation. It goes something like this:

&#8220;The atheists I&#8217;ve met don&#8217;t so much disbelieve in God as the personally dislike him.&#8221;

I&#8217;ve had similar experiences with people who described themselves as atheist, though most of the atheists I&#8217;ve known have been kind, compassionate people. What I have discovered about them is that they disbelieve in the God they were taught about as children. They&#8217;re often, as George Orwell observed, quite angry with God, and I add, probably the God of their youth. And, guess what?

I can&#8217;t blame them for it.

So many of us were taught to believe in a God who resembles a mean-spirited, vengeful old uncle who was tolerated only to ensure staying in his will. We were taught that we&#8217;d better behave, follow the rules and plop our nickels in the collection plate, or we&#8217;d burn in hell forever. Personally, I think it is abusive to teach children that, but teach it to children, they do.

Actually, I remember quite well the day I told my mother that I didn&#8217;t believe in God any longer. I was about 7-and as sick, both physically and emotionally, as any child could be-though I was happy as well, because I was well loved. I told her that I figured out that adults made up God, just as they did Santa Claus, to scare kids and make them behave. My mother told me, years later, that if she could do it over, she wouldn&#8217;t have told her children about Santa Claus.I agree. It&#8217;s not a good idea to tell lies to children, even seemingly innocent ones, such as Santa Claus.(Side note-we lived on the 20th-top-floor of an apartment building in Manhattan, and they actually had the night watchman stomp on the roof above my room on Christmas Eve. Whatta thrill!)

So, my point is this: I think many atheists disbelieve in the &#8220;Santa Claus gods&#8221; they were taught about as children. They don&#8217;t move beyond the anger, and they wind up throwing out the baby with the bath water.

They also ask why a loving God would allow a child to have cancer, or allow cruelty or war. I&#8217;m no expert on God. I don&#8217;t really know any more about God than anyone else can, but, in fairness to God, I&#8217;d ask some more questions about the good things and beauty that God does allow in the world, like mountains and seashores, love and joy, and the way a baby&#8217;s smile can melt even the coldest of hearts. The best explanation I&#8217;ve found is contained in the ancient Vedic scriptures of India. They explain that this material world is a place of conflict and contrast, of light and dark, of beauty and ugliness and of joy and suffering.

Some are good at pointing out the apparent fallacies and contradictions in a variety of scriptures, but seem to lack the open-mindedness to even admit-let alone civilly discuss- the beauty and truth contained in the great spiritual literature of the world.

For me, and others like me, it&#8217;s not enough to believe in God; I need to experience God. Fortunately, I have found a vehicle to do so, and I am grateful. There are countless paths to God, no matter what some fundamentalists may insist, but there are also devilish paths, and one has to use discernment, as one does with people. If you want to know what people really think about God, I advise you to pay close attention to what they do. You can pretty much ignore what they say.

This last especially includes me, BTW.....

 

[michaeledward]

Watch ye therefore, and pray always..." Luke 21:36
"I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men." D&C 64:10
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matt 5:16

All wonderful teachings, even if I no longer believe in them as I once did.

But, let's take a look at the last.

"No man lights a lamp and places it under a bushel."

What lesson should we take from this teaching? My understanding is that believers should proselytize passively, through their actions. Alternatively, we see, often, believers actively proselytizing through aggressive tactics; such as running homosexuals out of schools.

Others may take different things from this teaching. And the other teachings in the bible. While I can never claim certainty, I find it hard to believe that Jesus would say "everyone worships something .... what do you worship and why?".

 

[ibba]

The one and only true God, Jesus Christ

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Yucks, the god of humor.

 

[elder999]

Others may take different things from this teaching. And the other teachings in the bible. While I can never claim certainty, I find it hard to believe that Jesus would say "everyone worships something .... what do you worship and why?".

Well, I find it hard to believe that anyone would compare my words with Jesus's....I'm not Jesus, and don't recall claiming to be-nor am I a Christian, nor am I even a Jew, ......however:

Mathew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.