What does Martial Arts simplicity mean to you?

[Xue Sheng]

Yeah but important semantics as I think simplicity gives the wrong idea. And actually puts your training in the wrong direction a bit.

Like whichever post it was about not thinking ahead. Where you can be efficient but still lay traps for the guy.

1/2 is the simplification of 4/8.... and does not give the wrong idea.
We don't agree with the terminology and I willing to simply leave it at that

 

[Xue Sheng]

indirectly paraphrasing Lee here lol, that's exactly what he said it means... "stripping away the inessentials". And in that same phrase he infers to the progression away from classical or stylized form. Now where I personally elaborate on this is in terms of application and passing on the legacy. In my practice of CMA, I've come to learn that not all Chinese culture is as definitive as Western culture is accustomed to from language to martial art. As a result, classical form is passed down with each generation sharing their own interpretations toward application... meanwhile the formalized structure remains as intact as possible. This is what I interpret as Bruce's term "formless form", one stylized "optimal" form that can assume all forms in application, thus becoming formless.

But JKD also changes from generation to generation as well based on an individuals interpretation, the JKD of Dan Inosanto is not the same as that which came from Jerry Poteet and neither are exactly the same as the JKD that came from Jesse Glover. Now take that another generation and it changes more, getting further from what Bruce Lee started. But then based on another Bruce Lee quote.

Again let me remind you Jeet Kune Do is just a name used, a boat to get one across, and once across it is to be discarded and not to be carried on one's back.

I'm not sure how happy he would be about the "JKD" schools that are around turning it into a specific style

[Edit]: in regards to the "classical mess", I believe Bruce was speaking of those who refuse to progress past the limitations of a stylized-crystalline form. In example, a person who only possesses one way of doing a tech, our may be limited to only the few learned from classical style.

I use to think that, but now I'm not so sure, at least as some have come to interpret that. I do think it has something to do with blindly following forms as they have come to be based on myth and legend. Take the myth and legend out and things get less...well messy.

 

[wingchun100]

Part of his definition of classical mess was all the endless forms/kata. He thought that had no practical application to real fighting.


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[Kung Fu Wang]

If you can make 1,2 into 1, and 1,2,3 into 1,2, you have simplified MA. You can either hide that extra move, or combine that move with the proviso move or with the next move.

 

[Thunder Foot]

But JKD also changes from generation to generation as well based on an individuals interpretation, the JKD of Dan Inosanto is not the same as that which came from Jerry Poteet and neither are exactly the same as the JKD that came from Jesse Glover. Now take that another generation and it changes more, getting further from what Bruce Lee started. But then based on another Bruce Lee quote.

Firstly, Jesse Glover didn't practice JKD. Secondly, such is the outcome of all Martial Arts to an extent. Classical styles are not exempt. But as long as people understand the principles of the Martial Art, it will continue to live on in the spirit of the founder.

I'm not sure how happy he would be about the "JKD" schools that are around turning it into a specific style

Likewise, I think he would be just as upset at the watered down mess a bulk of it has become. In both cases those schools have lost touch with reality.

I use to think that, but now I'm not so sure, at least as some have come to interpret that. I do think it has something to do with blindly following forms as they have come to be based on myth and legend. Take the myth and legend out and things get less...well messy.

I believe it to be so because Bruce continued to learn traditional Martial Arts amidst his progression. If it wasn't true, I would believe a logical man would stop training traditionally, and solely rely on self-discovery. Hence why "the boat" it's too be discarded once you reach the other side.

 

[drop bear]

1/2 is the simplification of 4/8.... and does not give the wrong idea.
We don't agree with the terminology and I willing to simply leave it at that

But we are storming a castle not doing a maths equation. The simplest method is the front door. But maybe not the most efficient.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Firstly, Jesse Glover didn't practice JKD.

What did he teach...was it Jun Fan Gong Fu?

Secondly, such is the outcome of all Martial Arts to an extent. Classical styles are not exempt. But as long as people understand the principles of the Martial Art, it will continue to live on in the spirit of the founder.

Agreed and to be honest I feel many classical styles are a victim of it do to the length of time they have been around and the legends that build up around them.

Likewise, I think he would be just as upset at the watered down mess a bulk of it has become. In both cases those schools have lost touch with reality.

Well at least it is good to know its not only me

I believe it to be so because Bruce continued to learn traditional Martial Arts amidst his progression. If it wasn't true, I would believe a logical man would stop training traditionally, and solely rely on self-discovery. Hence why "the boat" it's too be discarded once you reach the other side.

I Shall have to tell you about the JKD effect that showed me the classical mess of Xingyi sometime.

Ironically I was given a note this evening that is on my desk that I just noticed has a picture of a row boat on it

 

[drop bear]

Firstly, Jesse Glover didn't practice JKD. Secondly, such is the outcome of all Martial Arts to an extent. Classical styles are not exempt. But as long as people understand the principles of the Martial Art, it will continue to live on in the spirit of the founder.




Likewise, I think he would be just as upset at the watered down mess a bulk of it has become. In both cases those schools have lost touch with reality.



I believe it to be so because Bruce continued to learn traditional Martial Arts amidst his progression. If it wasn't true, I would believe a logical man would stop training traditionally, and solely rely on self-discovery. Hence why "the boat" it's too be discarded once you reach the other side.

My technique changes under resistance. What I drilled did not reflect what I fought. I now drill the technique the same way I would do it under resistance.

A few weeks ago I had a spazzy new guy who was a crap partner that would lock down and resist everything during drills. I used to have to take the time to change his behaviour so my technique would work. Now my technique works regardless because I have changed that.

Classical mess vs fighting technique.

Eg judo.

How it is supposed to look.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fSwW7YRwvRk

How it ends up looking.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wssCJZXbuDQ

Now the change in my method is that the second video shows the correct version of the throws.

 

[Thunder Foot]

That's good drop bear,
But I believe that only practicing one way of doing things will limit your adaptability in anything... even if that's the practical way that you discovered. This is why I stay mindful of Bruce's ideal of formless form and keep it as simple and direct as possible. In this way when the moment arises, I'm free to adapt as needed. To me, that it's simplicity.

 

[Thunder Foot]

What did he teach...was it Jun Fan Gong Fu?



Agreed and to be honest I feel many classical styles are a victim of it do to the length of time they have been around and the legends that build up around them.



Well at least it is good to know its not only me



I Shall have to tell you about the JKD effect that showed me the classical mess of Xingyi sometime.

Ironically I was given a note this evening that is on my desk that I just noticed has a picture of a row boat on it

Definitely. I'd love to hear about it. To me, honest expression is paramount. As long as that it's at the forefront, I believe we will all find our truth as Bruce taught.
In regards to Jesse, he practiced what he called "Non-classical Gung Fu", and was very much a proponent of Bruce's earlier years. During this time Bruce taught many WC principles...which is why Jesse was a strong advocate of sticky hands.
JKD as a whole on the other hand... is what it is. Lee warned us when he said that only 5% of the population can do JKD. That's 95% that is unfit according to Lee. It's no wonder there are so many interpretations which contradict not only each other, but Lee's own words. Everyone wants to replicate Lee's process and progress without putting in Lee-like hours. And that's just the physical.. let us not forget the mental, spiritual, and philosophical level that he was operating at. People often don't understand that you would have to be nothing short of a prodigy to create your own definitive fighting system; that is stumble upon your own absolute truth as not guided by your Sifu or other teachers. But in today's age, everyone is a prodigy hehe. Now at the same time, it's honest expression when we recognize the level of our own ability, our hardwork, dedication, and perseverance. Prodigy or no prodigy. To me, being honest with yourself it's the truest form of simplicity. Instead of fabricating reasons for this and that, why this works and why that doesn't... to simply say "I'm not there yet, but working towards it". Simply to be simple.