What does a black belt look like?

[Kacey]

In this thread, I misread the reference, and wrote the following in my response:

I understand completely. For years, when people hear about my involvement in TKD, and that I am a black belt, one of most frequent comments is "Really? You don't look like a black belt!"

As nearly as I can tell, I'm either supposed to be short, wiry, and Asian, or tall and muscular - but either way, I'm supposed to be male.

What does a black belt look like to you? To those around you? If you are not a black belt, what do you think a black belt should look like? If you are a black belt,do you meet the "expected" appearance in part? In whole? Not at all? For anyone of any rank, how has your conception of how a black belt "should" look changed (if at all) since you started your MA training?

Also, is this a purely physical issue? Do (or should) black belts exude an air of competence? Of confidence? Neither? Both? Something else?

 

[terryl965]

Well since I'm one I guess 5'9" and 265 lbs. and then again my wife is 5'6" and around 190 and then Zachary is 5'8" and 110 lbs so i really do not jnow since we all come in different shapes and sizes.

 

[Balrog]

Well, it should be about two inches wide, about 72 inches long....

Oh, wait. You mean the person.

The only thing I can think of is an aura of confidence. Apart from that, there really isn't anything that sets us apart from the rest of the world. We're just people, after all.

 

[Kacey]

Well since I'm one I guess 5'9" and 265 lbs. and then again my wife is 5'6" and around 190 and then Zachary is 5'8" and 110 lbs so i really do not jnow since we all come in different shapes and sizes.

I agree - but I'm looking more for peoples' preconceptions, both for themselves and for those who are not familiar with MA who respond the way people often respond to me.

I'm not talking about physical prowess - that's too easily hidden or lost due to illness or injury of various sorts, without affecting the person's knowledge or self-defense capabilities (I know some extremely competent black belts of various ranks who, due to injury or illness, do not look capable... but I would not wish to provoke a physical response from any of them). I'm asking what people think a black belt should look like, and if that conception has changed since starting MA training - and why or why not.

 

[Doc_Jude]

If you have the eye, you can usually get a good idea about someone when you see them move. Keeping their mother art in mind, that is.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I have no clue.
I have seen people with Black Belts that are in wheel choirs, paralyzed on one side of their body, so clumsy they have trouble putting one foot in front of the other, 6 foot 4 and 150 lbs, 5 foot 5 and 300 plus pounds.
I have seen kids at the tender age of 5 and people in their 60's get their first black belt.
Those that I think of as black belts may not be what anyone else thinks of as black belts, and the other way around applies also

 

[newGuy12]

Well, it should be about two inches wide, about 72 inches long....

Oh, wait. You mean the person.

Haha! That is what I thought was meant by the title of this thread! I thought to myself, "What kind of dang fool question is that to ask, who would not know this?" hahahaha -- and I also saw that user Kacey was the one who posted this, which gave more confusion, lol!

Now, when I look at the Black Belt Students (this is for the TKD students, I do not know about other ways of martial arts), I expect to see someone who is fairly thin, yes, almost wiry. This is the optimum body type, because it gives better ability for jumping over obstructions. If you have minimal body mass, it is USUALLY easier to jump over people when you do flying kicks to destroy a target. Of course, I have also seen very big body builder types of guys do this kind of technique also. It is a very strange thing to see, but I have seen it myself before and thought to myself, "There is no way what I just saw really happened. It is not physically possible." Yet I know that it did happen. And that much mass moving at good velocity can go through STRONG targets!!!

I'm not talking about physical prowess

I know that you just typed this, but I say this: This is just about ALL that I look for when I see the Black Belt Student. Now, I know that this is sometimes tricky. For example, there is one TKD Assistant Instructor that I know who is an older man (oh, maybe in his 50's?) who has a big belly. I once thought to myself, "He should loose that belly, someone should go up and tell him, 'I will now show you black belt technique!!!' and then 'give it to him'", but then I saw see him smash the targets with good power, good technique. It impresses me as something I wish to emulate. So I then know that such thoughts are stupid. You cannot judge everyone's ability by the way that they look on the outside.

Still, it is important for my mind to see strong muscles on the Black Belt Student, and some evidence of hand conditioning on their hands and things like this.

They should have good balance, and not bounce up and down too excessively as they walk!

 

[terryl965]

I understand Kacey, the one thing I have always been able to do is see it in there movements and the way they have that certain level of confidence about them. Not that I'm GOD mentality but that certain I know what I am and I do not need to tell you about it.

 

[Sukerkin]

That's a good point there, Doc. It can even apply to non-martial movement. One of my fellow iaidoka's, after she'd known me for a while, told me that she'd known from day one that I was black belt in something, just from the way I walked .

It's an interesting topic of conversation on many fronts.

That same lass who'd made the observation I noted above also impressed me immeasurably in our first day of training in Iai.

It doesn't sound so great at first because, not to put too fine a point on it, she fell down. There are several facets to this accident tho' that turn what could be seen as a fault into something positive.

First she is a very slightly built woman and also extremely pretty. She also wears glasses. Second, we trained at that time on parquet (hardwood block) flooring. She had a toe-in-hakama incident (common until you learn to wear this alien garb) whilst we were practising a simple move and cut drill and slammed face first into the afore mentioned wooden floor.

There was no bursting into tears or any form of complaint, she bounced right back to her feet and continued the form. More importantly she did not drop her sword (shameful wallhanger that it was back then - see here, I'm sure you'll need no clue to identify

.

I'd recognised her grace and balance of motion up to that point (noone looks cool falling on their nose) but I knew as soon as she carried on as if nothing had happened that she'd trained in something. It turned out she was second dan karate (third dan these days).

Where I'm heading with this ramble is that, with the martial arts, unless someone takes pains to hide it, you can tell by looking when someone is trained. At least you can if you are yourself. The proviso is that you have to see someone move first.

For example, in the picture I linked, there are only three people who are not a dan grade in one art or more. Could you tell which is which? If you can I'll be amazed but if you saw them move for a couple of minutes I'm betting that your guesses would be one heck of a lot more accurate.

So the answer to the question of what does a balck belt look like is quite simple really. Someone who moves like one ... now all we have to do is work out in words what it is we pick up on that tells us this .

 

[newGuy12]

Those are some fine looking people there, Sukerin. Handsome men and beautiful women, all look to be full of life and happy.

 

[IcemanSK]

I have a friend who is the #2 man in his MA system. He's 64 years old, chain-smokes (about 3 packs a day) & is always smiling, joking & generally enjoying himself around his friends. I'd have never pegged him as anyone who knew anything about MA. He carries himself very confidently (almost cocky to those that don't know him) as if he was an actor in a gangster film, sometimes. Yet, I've seen him verbally disarm gang members & jerks at MA tournaments that allows them to keep their dignity & yet letting them know their BS isn't not welcome.

I've been on the receiving end of his techniques on the mat. He's absolutely the "real deal." He is fond of saying that many instructors "lord their power over their students simply because they themselves are 'nobodies' in their day job."

He is confident within himself. He doesn't need to put someone down to build himself up. I think THAT is what a black belt should "look" like.

 

[Steel Tiger]

Iceman's friend is what I expect a black belt to eventually be. A person that doesn't carry their art around with them like it was a weapon.

Questions like this always remind me of something from the movie "Sanjuro". While rescuing a samurai lady the main character (portrayed by Toshiro Mifune) is told he is like a drawn sword, he glitters too much. A good sword, a really good sword, remains in its scabbard.

I guess what I mean is that I can see a person who has a black belt as a fit, powerful, confident, and possibly agressive person. But a person who is a black belt, the training and knowledge has sunk in, is just a normal looking person.

 

[Rich Parsons]

In this thread, I misread the reference, and wrote the following in my response:



What does a black belt look like to you? To those around you? If you are not a black belt, what do you think a black belt should look like? If you are a black belt,do you meet the "expected" appearance in part? In whole? Not at all? For anyone of any rank, how has your conception of how a black belt "should" look changed (if at all) since you started your MA training?

Also, is this a purely physical issue? Do (or should) black belts exude an air of competence? Of confidence? Neither? Both? Something else?

Those that "LOOKED" to be Black Belts were not used in a positive manner in my opinion. They had that Swagger walk and made comments about being able to beat everyone up and how many fights they have been in and how tough they are. You can see them as just that type of person.

But, most people in my opinion do not fit this description at all. Be they black belts or not. As is always, a small group ruins it for all.

They other option is the perfect chiseled look that is shown in the movies, where fitness is much more important than skill or training. This goes back to our perceptions of how people should look in general from our media and from our producers of movies.

 

[Sukerkin]

I guess what I mean is that I can see a person who has a black belt as a fit, powerful, confident, and possibly agressive person. But a person who is a black belt, the training and knowledge has sunk in, is just a normal looking person.

Lovely way of phrasing what I think we've been blundering about trying to 'define' :tup:.

By the way, does anyone know what image sizing tags work here at MT? Everything html-wise I tried to shrink the ginormous picture I linked failed to work (and I was too tired to go through the rigamarole of resizing the actual image ).

 

[morph4me]

Where I'm heading with this ramble is that, with the martial arts, unless someone takes pains to hide it, you can tell by looking when someone is trained. At least you can if you are yourself. The proviso is that you have to see someone move first. So the answer to the question of what does a balck belt look like is quite simple really. Someone who moves like one ... now all we have to do is work out in words what it is we pick up on that tells us this .

Well said. I have been training for quite awhile and it always seems to come as a suprise when people find out, unless they've seen me train, and I can tell within a few seconds of someone stepping on the mat if a person has had previous training and usually what level. Advanced ranks are very easy to pick out.

 

[MJS]

In this thread, I misread the reference, and wrote the following in my response:



What does a black belt look like to you? To those around you? If you are not a black belt, what do you think a black belt should look like? If you are a black belt,do you meet the "expected" appearance in part? In whole? Not at all? For anyone of any rank, how has your conception of how a black belt "should" look changed (if at all) since you started your MA training?

Also, is this a purely physical issue? Do (or should) black belts exude an air of competence? Of confidence? Neither? Both? Something else?

Nice thread topic. Well, a black belt, or at least the ones that I've seen, usually fall into two very distinct categories. The first is the cocky, arrogant black belt. These are the folks that think they're God because they have a piece of black cloth around their waist. Usually, the first degree test is the humbling one, however, in many cases, I have doubts as to whether or not it actually worked. These folks think that they are suddenly better than someone else who is a lower rank.

Unfortunately, this carries on into the upper bb ranks as well. People who are 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th degrees suddenly feel that now, because they have even more stripes, that they're better than ever. They walk with their nose high and belittle anyone who isn't on 'their level', whatever that may be. Its shouldn't be too hard to notice these people, as they're everywhere...in real life and right here on forums.

The other person falls into the humble category. He is confident in his actions, knows his stuff, but at the same time, is not cocky, arrogant and does not belittle someone of a lower rank. They realize that their martial art journey is beginning again. They should also realize that its not the number of stripes or the number of arts they study, but how well they understand the material. Just because you have 8 stripes, doesn't mean that you're a fantastic, above average martial artist. These people shouldn't be hard to notice either, as they too, are in real life and right here on forums.

 

[Adept]

the cocky, arrogant black belt... think they're God because they have a piece of black cloth around their waist... These folks think that they are suddenly better than someone else who is a lower rank.

People who are 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th degrees suddenly feel that now, because they have even more stripes, that they're better than ever. They walk with their nose high and belittle anyone who isn't on 'their level', whatever that may be.

And why shouldn't they?

Ranking systems exist preciesly to separate people into distinct categories. You don't find officers in the Army slumming it with the enlisted men, do you?

It's one of the reasons I prefer training environments without belts.

 

[morph4me]

Nice thread topic. Well, a black belt, or at least the ones that I've seen, usually fall into two very distinct categories. The first is the cocky, arrogant black belt. These are the folks that think they're God because they have a piece of black cloth around their waist. Usually, the first degree test is the humbling one, however, in many cases, I have doubts as to whether or not it actually worked. These folks think that they are suddenly better than someone else who is a lower rank.

Unfortunately, this carries on into the upper bb ranks as well. People who are 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th degrees suddenly feel that now, because they have even more stripes, that they're better than ever. They walk with their nose high and belittle anyone who isn't on 'their level', whatever that may be. Its shouldn't be too hard to notice these people, as they're everywhere...in real life and right here on forums.

Isn't that the way it's supposed to be? I was a brown belt one day and when I wrapped my black belt around my waist the first time I was imbued with the essense of my art, and became enlightened and maginificent, the wisdome of the ages flowing through me, and the understanding of all the secrets of my art suddenly revealed to me :uhyeah:

 

[MJS]

And why shouldn't they?

Ranking systems exist preciesly to separate people into distinct categories. You don't find officers in the Army slumming it with the enlisted men, do you?

Why shouldn't they what? Walk around like they're God? Well, IMO, because its not the belt or stripes that is going to save your tail when the poop hits the fan. A bb or any belt for that matter really means nothing, when you get down to the bottom line. It doesnt turn someone into a Superman. If you read my entire post, you'd notice what I said in the second half. In all honesty, does treating someone like a piece of crap compared to being respectful make you any better of a fighter?

It's one of the reasons I prefer training environments without belts.

True. Although, there can still be that feeling of being superior can still be felt in the air.

At the end of the day, I can really give a crap less about rank. I go to the training hall to do just that...train! We're all on the same path...to learn the art that we've decided to study. I've been training for a while, and still show respect to the new student. To each his/her own I suppose. But speaking of respect, which is also a quality of a bb, I still live by the rule that its a 2-way street. Gotta give it to get it.

 

[MJS]

Isn't that the way it's supposed to be? I was a brown belt one day and when I wrapped my black belt around my waist the first time I was imbued with the essense of my art, and became enlightened and maginificent, the wisdome of the ages flowing through me, and the understanding of all the secrets of my art suddenly revealed to me :uhyeah:

I was a brown belt at one time too, and was on cloud 9 when I put on that black belt. Like I said, I'm not saying that you shouldn't be proud, happy, etc., but it all comes down to how you carry yourself. Theres always someone better out there.