What are your thoughts on knee on the back of the neck.

[jobo]

I’m not trying to defend what was done and the outcome in any way, shape or form. But I feel I must say this...

Someone saying they can’t breathe can actually breathe. Perhaps not breathe freely, but they can definitely breathe. We had people say “I can’t breathe” all the time to the refs in wrestling. And during practice sometimes. Just about every coach would say “if he can talk he can breathe.”

Maybe I’m opening a can of worms with that one, but that’s a train of thought for a lot of people. Again, not defending what happened at all.

yea, but if someone says i cant breath its reckless in the extreme to just ignore that, that goes for wrestling or arrest

its quite difficult to asphyxiate someone, unless they have underlying problem or it goes on for a fairly long time. if it happens to be both as it was in this case then it has a level of inevitability about it, sooner or later your arrestee will die unless you respond to the'' i cant breath'' plea by letting them breath by at the very least taking your knee of their neck

once they are face down on the floor in hand cuffs its extremely unlikely they can get them selves of the floor at all, people with that level of gymnastic skills are quite rare, even rarer that they are middle aged and significantly over weight.... even less if you stand on their leg

 

[Deleted member 39746]

What happens is basically this.

You go to bouncer school. get taught laughable junk. But it works because your role play partner makes it work.

thats just made me think of that bit on police interceptors where they get one arm in handcuffs then the person resists and jabs one of them in the face a dozen times with a key as they basically just hold onto the handcuffs so they dont run off.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I’m not trying to defend what was done and the outcome in any way, shape or form. But I feel I must say this...

Someone saying they can’t breathe can actually breathe. Perhaps not breathe freely, but they can definitely breathe. We had people say “I can’t breathe” all the time to the refs in wrestling. And during practice sometimes. Just about every coach would say “if he can talk he can breathe.”

Maybe I’m opening a can of worms with that one, but that’s a train of thought for a lot of people. Again, not defending what happened at all.

It's possible to be breathing, but not sufficiently to maintain consciousness or in some cases life.

 

[drop bear]

I’m not trying to defend what was done and the outcome in any way, shape or form. But I feel I must say this...

Someone saying they can’t breathe can actually breathe. Perhaps not breathe freely, but they can definitely breathe. We had people say “I can’t breathe” all the time to the refs in wrestling. And during practice sometimes. Just about every coach would say “if he can talk he can breathe.”

Maybe I’m opening a can of worms with that one, but that’s a train of thought for a lot of people. Again, not defending what happened at all.

I thought that. But it is not the case with positional asphyxiation.

Which is kind of weird.

It was brought up in the dungary inquiry that I linked.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

There are many effective ways to control your opponent on the ground and you don't need to use your knee to press on his neck.

 

[JR 137]

It's possible to be breathing, but not sufficiently to maintain consciousness or in some cases life.

Absolutely. But that mentality is out there.

 

[JR 137]

I thought that. But it is not the case with positional asphyxiation.

Which is kind of weird.

It was brought up in the dungary inquiry that I linked.

I didn’t read the link, but agree with the rest.

 

[JowGaWolf]

So this just popped up on my screen. The family-commissioned autopsy shows George Floyd died of "asphyxia due to neck and back compression" I would post more but that's all that it shows. I would be interested in seeing more information. I would like to see a third independent party to review the findings as well. I have passed out before from chest and back compression - from a bear hug as a kid. So from personal experience I know it's possible. It takes a lot of pressure to make that work because you have to really squeeze tight. I'm not sure if it would have worked if he just stood on my chest. Maybe it would have just broken my ribs. But anyway. It will be interesting to see what comes of it. Not in an entertaining way, but in a "truth to light" way. The first report didn't sit well with me, and the EMT without the EMT personnel didn't sit well from me. To see someone is unconscious when they arrive on the scene and not check for pulse or consciousness doesn't sit well with me, even if it wasn't George and even it it wasn't an arrest. I want to to see Truth to come to light.

 

[CB Jones]

So this just popped up on my screen. The family-commissioned autopsy shows George Floyd died of "asphyxia due to neck and back compression"

Its Dr. Baden.... Private Pathologist for hire.

He has been hired to do secondary autopsies in cases for OJ Simpson, Phil Specter, Jeffrey Epstein, Michael Brown, etc.

He always supports what the side paying is claiming and loves the spot light.

 

[drop bear]

I didn’t read the link, but agree with the rest.

Yeah it was a pretty dry read to be honest. But the video is kind of enlightening.

But i had assumed talk equals breathe. Apparently it doesn't.

I know if you close a guys throat off they can't talk or breathe. And good top pressure can be sort of hard to breathe. But a lot of people do that and don't die.

So the positional asphyxiation thing is just this super tricky thing to manage.

And it is not managed well.

Dungary was a legitimately bad dude though and I am not sure how they would have handled him otherwise.

 

[CB Jones]

And just to clarify....IMO the officers screwed up and it lead to Floyd's death.

But if you know who is paying Dr Baden...then you know what his report will say.

 

[jobo]

So this just popped up on my screen. The family-commissioned autopsy shows George Floyd died of "asphyxia due to neck and back compression" I would post more but that's all that it shows. I would be interested in seeing more information. I would like to see a third independent party to review the findings as well. I have passed out before from chest and back compression - from a bear hug as a kid. So from personal experience I know it's possible. It takes a lot of pressure to make that work because you have to really squeeze tight. I'm not sure if it would have worked if he just stood on my chest. Maybe it would have just broken my ribs. But anyway. It will be interesting to see what comes of it. Not in an entertaining way, but in a "truth to light" way. The first report didn't sit well with me, and the EMT without the EMT personnel didn't sit well from me. To see someone is unconscious when they arrive on the scene and not check for pulse or consciousness doesn't sit well with me, even if it wasn't George and even it it wasn't an arrest. I want to to see Truth to come to light.

i think the Truth is in the light, no one who has watched the vid can reach any other conclusion than the rough treatment was a contributing factor in the death, however showing to a criminal standard that it was the major factor is some what different

there are people that will be satisfied with nothing less than a murder conviction, and that seems an unlikely outcome

 

[JowGaWolf]

Its Dr. Baden.... Private Pathologist for hire.

He has been hired to do secondary autopsies in cases for OJ Simpson, Phil Specter, Jeffrey Epstein, Michael Brown, etc.

He always supports what the side paying is claiming and loves the spot light.

That's why I want a third. Even if it wasn't wasn't Dr. Baden. I would still want a third. Independant It's not enough to to just have 2 people checking. You have to have a thir party check it out.

 

[JowGaWolf]

and that seems an unlikely outcome

It was an unlikely outcome that all of this would be going on now during a pandemic, but here we are. What I've learned in the 4 years that have gone by, is that "unlikely isn't as unlikely as I once though."

 

[drop bear]

There are many effective ways to control your opponent on the ground and you don't need to use your knee to press on his neck.

Yeah. Tentatively. There are many ways that don't restrain a person that is accepted dogma in a lot of industry.

 

[CB Jones]

That's why I want a third. Even if it wasn't wasn't Dr. Baden. I would still want a third. Independant It's not enough to to just have 2 people checking. You have to have a thir party check it out.

Will just muddy the waters even more

 

[drop bear]

Texas Redman training.

Police Community

So an example of the skill set that is provided at the end of a course that prepares people to fight criminals.

I watched about 10 seconds of one before the guy was yelling knee strike with his baton and had to stop due to cringyness.

And by the way try not to cripple people with a bat. You get in trouble for that kind of thing.

And what you kind of get is those arm locks that nobody can fight on. So to get them to work the include things like striking and brachial stuns. Knees on the ground and all this other sorts of mischief.

And look beating on someone untill they give up an arm does work. But it can be done more professionally more often.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Yeah. Tentatively. There are many ways that don't restrain a person that is accepted dogma in a lot of industry.

If a police controls a criminal on the arm, in the worst case, that arm can be broken, but nobody will get killed.

 

[dvcochran]

yea, but if someone says i cant breath its reckless in the extreme to just ignore that, that goes for wrestling or arrest

its quite difficult to asphyxiate someone, unless they have underlying problem or it goes on for a fairly long time. if it happens to be both as it was in this case then it has a level of inevitability about it, sooner or later your arrestee will die unless you respond to the'' i cant breath'' plea by letting them breath by at the very least taking your knee of their neck

once they are face down on the floor in hand cuffs its extremely unlikely they can get them selves of the floor at all, people with that level of gymnastic skills are quite rare, even rarer that they are middle aged and significantly over weight.... even less if you stand on their leg

You would be amazed what people in cuffs can do. I was amazed a few times how fast some people could be cuffed hands behind their back, in the back of a patrol car and get their hands/arms from the back to the front. You knew it was going to be on at that point.

 

[Tames D]

Its Dr. Baden.... Private Pathologist for hire.

He has been hired to do secondary autopsies in cases for OJ Simpson, Phil Specter, Jeffrey Epstein, Michael Brown, etc.

He always supports what the side paying is claiming and loves the spot light.

Interesting. Out of curiosity, How good is his track record for overturning original autopsies? When I say overturn, I'm referring to his influence on Judges, Juries and the outcome of trials.