What are the color codes for kyu/kup grades for TKD in the USA ?

[Kacey]

The color of the belts is open to instructor preference. However, anything more than 7-8 color belt levels is a warning sign that the instructor is milking the students for money. More belt ranks equals more testing fees.

We have 9 color belt levels at my school but the only "fee" we pay is $10 for the actual belt -- we don't pay to test. I guess if you want to call an extra 10-20 bucks milking the students go ahead..

Likewise - we have 10 color belt ranks, but you start as a white belt, so you test for 9. The fee for testing is $25 - but the money goes to the class, not to me, and is used to buy equipment and supplies (rebreakable boards, wood for breaking, focus pads, a couple of wavemasters, being able to keep uniforms and sparring gear for students to buy in stock instead of ordering it when needed). If you think that fundraising for the class is "milking students for money", then I don't know what to tell you. I teach at a Y - what the Y pays me barely covers my expenses in getting there and maintaining my own training so I can become a better instructor; I have to raise money for class supplies somehow, and this is the best way I've found.

 

[terryl965]

Well I can remember when we had two belts white and Black, if you was the teacher black other wise it was white. Now adays it is like being in a parade with all the different colors from org to org.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Well I can remember when we had two belts white and Black, if you was the teacher black other wise it was white. Now adays it is like being in a parade with all the different colors from org to org.

I'd be happy with that. I'd also be happy with white, red, and black; student, senior student, and teacher. But really, black and white is all that is needed.

Daniel

 

[YoungMan]

But that wouldn't work in America. After six months of training, the students need some tangible evidence, beyond just improvement in technique, that they are improving. Very difficult for them to say "I've been practicing for six months (or a year) and I'm still a white belt."

 

[phatbway]

Interestingly enough, @ my school the belt system is:

10th kup: white
09th kup: Yellow
08th kup: Orange
07th kup: Green
06th kup: Dark Green
05th kup: Blue
04th kup: Purple
03rd kup: Red
02nd kup: Brown
01st kup: Black

Then comes the 10 dans.............. As you all can see, it's a long journey. i am currently @ Dark Green after a year and getting ready to test for Blue! wooooo hooooo! We also start learning Hapkido when you reach Green.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

But that wouldn't work in America. After six months of training, the students need some tangible evidence, beyond just improvement in technique, that they are improving. Very difficult for them to say "I've been practicing for six months (or a year) and I'm still a white belt."

If incoming students know from the start that chasing belts is not the purpose of the class, then it would work just fine. You'd get a very different cross section of customers; the parents bringing their kids in to get the blackbelt that they are somehow entitled to will not stick around or even show up.

But those looking to learn technique and skill will. I still maintain that people know when they're improving and when they're not. Unless you're dealing with small children, a carrot isn't needed to keep people interested. If it is, then they have some issues that need addressing before they can really advance in skill and technique.

Of course, as has been suggested by others, the belts could simply be done away with. Use of traditional aikido uniforms with a hakama would eliminate the uniform's need for belts (though it would look really odd in a taekwondo school). Or simply switching to sweats, in which case you'd still lose the suburban children, as well as the traditional crowd that wants a uniform of some kind.

Daniel

 

[YoungMan]

I don't think so. Every martial art, to a certain extent, has to adapt to the mentality of the host region. Americans want belts. It gives a psychological boost to have a tangible reminder around our waist of how far we have come, and it certainly is harmless. Belts give us something to aim for. Otherwise, we'd have no real goals to set.
That's why we have grades in school. Try to imagine going from K-12 without grades.
As for uniforms, they give us the identity of being in Taekwondo. Without them, I think the mindset would be drastically different. People just wouldn't take it seriously.

 

[DojangMom]

Personally, as a newcomer, I find the belt colours helpful. When teaming up for sparring or drills, it's easier to spot someone at the same belt level or just slightly higher, so I'm not pounded into a pulp by someone way out of my league. I think it also helps the instructors to tailor the class - if the majority are higher belts, they'll push us a little harder, tougher drills, higher-level combinations. If it's a class filled with lower belts, they might spend more time on things like patterns or strength training. I dunno ... it's working for us. :ultracool

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Personally, as a newcomer, I find the belt colours helpful. When teaming up for sparring or drills, it's easier to spot someone at the same belt level or just slightly higher, so I'm not pounded into a pulp by someone way out of my league. I think it also helps the instructors to tailor the class - if the majority are higher belts, they'll push us a little harder, tougher drills, higher-level combinations. If it's a class filled with lower belts, they might spend more time on things like patterns or strength training. I dunno ... it's working for us. :ultracool

This is the original intent of belts by Jigoro Kano; to be able to, at a glance, pick out his advanced students from the beginners. Good observations that kind of put the whole belt thing into perspective.

To be honest though, more advanced students generally will not be pounding beginners to a pulp. Usually, the opposite is true: advanced students usually have the maturity, control, and mandate to aid the low belt students. Generally, more training injuries or pounding issues occur between the low belt students, usually when you have a combination of inexperience and phyisical size, somtimes mixed with an aggressive or 'gotta show my moves' attitude.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I don't think so. Every martial art, to a certain extent, has to adapt to the mentality of the host region. Americans want belts. It gives a psychological boost to have a tangible reminder around our waist of how far we have come, and it certainly is harmless. Belts give us something to aim for. Otherwise, we'd have no real goals to set.
That's why we have grades in school. Try to imagine going from K-12 without grades.
As for uniforms, they give us the identity of being in Taekwondo. Without them, I think the mindset would be drastically different. People just wouldn't take it seriously.

School grades are not the best comparison to martial arts, though I do follow the analogy. In school, we don't wear belts to indicate that we're in high school; its mainly a function of age and socialization. And unless you pass, you don't go to the next grade. But most people will pass in school and go onto the next grade, and the grade they start in is determined by their age; young children go into kindergarten, eleven year olds are middle school age and fourteen through eighteen is high school age. On the other hand, I started kendo in my thirties as a white belt along with my son who was eleven. Martial arts for most people is like night school: you want to take it so you do, either to gain the ability to defend yourself or simply because you just want to. Or in the case of kids, its an activity that they do for the same reasons, or because their parents feel that it will help them.

And in reality, do Americans want belts? Or have they simply been told that they do for so long that they simply expect it with martial arts? I spent quite a bit of time at the fencing salle. We didn't need belts to get better. We had ratings that went up and down with competition, though if you didn't actively compete, you didn't have a rating. Boxers don't wear belts to show their level. They're rated by weight and competition record. Same with wrestlers. You can't tell me that Americans need a regular visual reward to want to do well. All people, regardless of their culture, need goals. Nobody needs the belt to have goals, and that includes Americans.

I do think that the emphasis on younger kids doing martial arts as if it were gymnastics is what has brought about this perceived 'need', as children, regardless of culture, need more tangible motivations.

Regarding uniforms, I have, very sadly, seen plenty of kids and some adults who don't take the class seriously while wearing the uniform. Certainly, I don't think that the uniform should go. Just as we have appropriate attire for baseball, swimming, tennis, or cycling, the uniform is appropriate attire for a traditional martial arts class. I was only commenting that the crossover and V-neck uniforms with vented sides would look awful silly without some kind of belt.

Daniel

 

[YoungMan]

But I think Americans are so used to having belts and seeing them that it would be impossible to function without them. What's the first question someone who learns you practice martial arts asks? "What belt are you?" That's how we relate to martial arts. Now try to imagine explaining to someone what level you are if you don't use belts. Automatically, you and they have to find a belt equivalent.

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

Hello everyone,
Can someone explain the color-codes that go with the different kyu/kup grades in the USA or in any other country if it's differant from what I knew:

Belgium
.
.
.

The short answer is that it varies at each dojang which teaches TKD here in the States. Even if they're affiliated with the Kukkiwon/WTF, each dojang has their own color belt scheme.

 

[igillman]

Even though each dojang has its own belt colours there are still some similarities...

1) The belts start at white.
2) Black is 1st Dan and up.
3) The belts get darker the further up you get.
4) Red is one or two belts away from black.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

But I think Americans are so used to having belts and seeing them that it would be impossible to function without them. What's the first question someone who learns you practice martial arts asks? "What belt are you?" That's how we relate to martial arts. Now try to imagine explaining to someone what level you are if you don't use belts. Automatically, you and they have to find a belt equivalent.

Once again, that is conditioning, as you've pointed out. But nobody asks what belt level a fencer or boxer is. Nobody asks what belt level a wrestler is. And when they evaluate them, they don't look for a belt equivalent.

Keep in mind that I am not hostile to belt systems; I feel that they can serve a very useful purpose. I just happen to believe that Americans can find other ways to relate to martial arts without it. Honestly, belt level comes up very little in my discussions with most non martial artists. People ask me things like, 'is it hard for you to do at forty?' or 'what sort of things do you learn in taekwondo?' rather than just, 'what belt are you?'. Usually, the only people who ask me that are people who don't know me well, find out that I'm into martial arts, and don't know what else to ask, but want to express interest in my personal life. You'd be surprised how many people don't know what any of the belt colors are aside from black.

As for martial artists, the subject of belts hardly ever comes up unless it is a discussion specifically about belts, such as this one. Martial artists talk techniques, forms, competition experiences and dojang/dojo experiences. Once in a while, I get a martial artist who asks what belt I am, but even then, its rarely early on in the conversation. Belts just aren't that important if you're discussing martial arts. They're really only important within the school setting.

Daniel

 

[YoungMan]

People don't ask what belt level a fencer or boxer is because they know those systems don't use them. People may not know what color belts a certain Taekwondo organization uses, but they know belts are used and they know what a black belt is. If a non-student knows nothing else about martial arts, they ask what belt you are and if you've ever used your technique.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I get the 'have you used your technique' question a lot. I can actually number the number of times that I've been asked what belt I am over the past twenty years.

The point about boxers was to say that people are capable of figuring it out without belts. Though I do agree that the belt makes it easier, I don't believe that it is impossible to function without them. Yes, you may have to relate a technique level to what belt it may be in another system for some people, but a school can (some do) function without belts in the US.

Once again, I'm not pressing to get rid of belt systems. I do believe that if you're going to have one that it should have some practical meaning that relates to skill, not merely fees paid.

Daniel