Western Boxing

[tmanifold]

Kennethku

Dude, You have no idea what your talking about, again. Most does not include the elite. The elite martial artists are elite because they are above average. Lets put it this way:

We discount boxercise type people just as we dicount tae-bo or Karatetics type stuff.

Almost everyone who boxs spars full contact. Maybe they don't compete but the spar full contact. I would argue that less than 50% of martial artists spar full contact. That is the difference. That is why black belts in TKD or karate will step in the ring with a run of the mill kick boxer and lose. They get hit hard and turn there back, hence they get worked. This is natural, and it happens time and time again. This has nothing to do with technique, it is the fact that they are not used to be hit. Many martial artist, whose sole purpose in the MA's is self preservation, learn to take a punch.

However, these types are in the minority. If you include Kickboxers with boxers, then martial artist that do this are even farther in the minority. (What everyone has agreed to is that this minority has the edge over most boxers. At the elite of the elite level I think boxer, martist, what ever is less important because these are elite athlete who don't quite follow the same rules you and I do. For example, I would put money on roy jones jr. vs almost any one, he is just that talented.)
Where you are wrong KennethKu, is that you seem to consider the minority as the majority. Either that or you seem to believe you do not need to be able to take a punch to be effective in combat. If you think the latter, you are sorely mistaken and I hope you don't find out the hard way.

As for Gouronin's teacher, I have the greatest respect for Vlad and anyone dumb enough to pick a fight with that man is in for a world of hurt. Anyone who knows anything of the spetnaz know they are a TOUGH bunch of soldiers. One of Vlad's main teaching point is in how to take a punch and fight on. This is a very important point in combat.


Tony

 

[KennethKu]

Please Don't put words in my mouth. Please Don't assume what I think. Please don't hijack Muay Thai into western boxing. The Thais would never accept that. Just reread my previous posts. I have repeated my points over and over again. And you keep running in circle. If you define "most" as "average" and purposefully leave out those who know and can defeat boxers, then this has truly been a tremenduous waste of time.

There are a lot more of TKD/KT/JKD people who can kick the crap out of most boxers then you imagine. If you didn't learn how to do that in your 2 different styles of KT, that is too fvcking bad I suggest you sue for a refund, dude. lol

Martial Artist made a good explaination using the concept of Military version of Martial Art vs the McDojo type martial art. With regards to that, if you include MArtists from Asia, MOST MARTIAL ARTISTS there can easily dispatch your western boxers.


As for Vlad, the claim of identifying color by touch, it is in his website.

http://russianmartialart.org/fightman.html

toward the end of the article.

As for Krav Maga, it is also bornt and baptised in real blood and fire. It is more efficient then Systema due to it economy of motion, same concept as in JKD. The more efficent an method is, the less likely screw up occurs.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by tmanifold
Dude, You have no idea what your talking about, again.

This isn't a surprise. He's just one of those guys who's been fed a line by his sensei so many times that he believes it now. He believes TKD is an effective self-defense. He's a schmuck plain and simple. Hell, he even believes that hype about Krav Maga. Although he has no clue to the differences in the USA and Europe regarding it. The guy is full of cr@p and hopes that by yelling loud enough people will have to believe his cr@pola. He's a wannabe. I told you that you're wasting your time debating him. The best thing to do with jerks like this is point out how they are wrong. People will see it. It's not hard to see through his emperor's new clothes.

 

[Baoquan]

Agreed. I gave up on attempting reason with this guy about 150 posts ago.

We have an expression in Australia for guys like him. Its starts with a "W" and rhymes with "anchor".

 

[KennethKu]

Put a sock in it, it is getting old, Guo. Like the mod said, you can't make your point w/o personal insult, then it must be b/c your point is worthless. lol You are just sored that all your Stalin folk dance is no match for the average TKD BB lol. As for against armed attack, Krav Maga beats you hands down and you couldn't even figure out why and how so. Nor could you figure out how to increase the effectiveness of Krav Maga by a factor of 10! Dude, sign up for real martial art lessons , lol.

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by Baoquan

Agreed. I gave up on attempting reason with this guy about 150 posts ago.

We have an expression in Australia for guys like him. Its starts with a "W" and rhymes with "anchor".

Name calling does not change the fact that your knowledge about MA is totally contaminated by your shallow experience with McDojo.

 

[tshadowchaser]

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Gentelmen Keep it polite please and watch the words you use this is a family forum.

 

[tmanifold]

Originally posted by KennethKu



Name calling does not change the fact that your knowledge about MA is totally contaminated by your shallow experience with McDojo.

Mcdojo, hrm? I don't know about that. I am pretty sure that I have never been to a MCdojo except for a free class or two and I don't know that these other people have either. I did not put words in your mouth and Never have. I simply stated the facts and wondered if you believe full contact sparring is not necassary for a combat oriented person. The fact is most martial artists don't train full contact. Most if not all boxers do, and I do lump kick boxers in with boxers(not Muay Thai, just WKA kick boxing, leg kicks, plus regular kickboxing,) because they train the same way.

Here is where I differ from a lot of people. I think that people in traditional martial arts, when they train full contact, should stick to their art. Instead of an attempt at kickboxing. This I think would transfer the average martial artist training ahead of your average boxer. In my experience when you see a Karateka start sparring he starts to bounce around like a boxer, he hold his hands like a boxer he even punches like one. Gone are the low stances, the blocks, or the proper karate hand techniques.

The Mcdojo word is thrown around alot, especially when people don't even know what dojo they are talking about. In particular I would not consider Vlad as a leader of a Mcdojo. He has more combat experience than most people on this board, I'll wager.
Don't confuse his belief in Psychic phenomena (an area the russians spent a lot of time and money on) with his experience in combat and knowledge of self preservation.

Tony

 

[sweeper]

KennethKu gou may not be able to refrain from throwing personal insults, but look into the past thred and tell me who first slured the name of another style.

Are you doing any better than he is?

And also re-read my posts, you will notice that each new post I have added new points or re ordered or ellaborated on old ones to account for a new points made or modifications to old ones. and you still havn't adressed some of mine.

as to your questioning of systema's effectiveness, name one specific conflict where krav maga was implamented against trained fighters.. I can give the name of a ten year battle field where systema was in relativly constant use, AFGANISTAN. We didn't call it "russia's vietnam" for nothing, and in that period there were plenty of times when useing firearms was not an optimal option due to noise.. guess who got those jobs.. Now saying the spetznas in genneral don't know how to fight is like saying the US navy SEALs don't know how to fight, if you have read anything about their history you know it's BS. I think you are just trying to attack people because you are getting attacked. you can deal with it without attacking an entire martial art.

MartialArtist I am well aware that most styles can be applied in a realistic fasion, but when the majority of all martial arts schools in the world are WTF and ITF TKD neither of wich alow kicks to the legs (unless I'm realy miss understanding some people) in their competition sparring, you are gona have a major deficience of leg kicking ability among martial artists, and that's what I'm talking about, not the absolute ability of the best, but the ability of the majority of martial artists, the majority of martial artists do not practice in competition full contact with hits below the waste for continueus rounds.

 

[KennethKu]

Where did I say Spetsnaz cannot fight? THis is a perfect example of putting words in my mouth.

I say Krav Maga is more efficient. More efficient as in Krav Maga involves a block or a deflection simultaneously with a strike to the head, neck, solar plexus, groin or knee, depending on the targets available. There is no fancy grapping, twisting or throwing your opponent. Now, your striking power must have knock down capability.

About those points I passed, Sweeper, no offence but as I have indicated, it is just running in circle , hence I am not going to repeat myself again and again.

Also, I am not going to talk about Gou as he is incapable of making one post w/o being a total jerk. If you want to dig into this, then do a more thorough job and look at his firs response. As I just said, I am not going to talk about a total loser like that.

 

[GouRonin]

I don't have to do anything but sit here and let him make a bigger fool out of himself. There is nothing I could do that he isn't doing to himself and the best part is, he's doing in front of everyone.

Christmas came early.

Alrighty!

Next topic!

 

[Cthulhu]

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Cthulhu
-MT Admin.-

 

[arnisador]

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