Welfare is it wrong?

[7starmantis]

The lack of willingness to look at any other angle than a personal one is staggering here. Misquoting and ad hominem attacks do not make a point. I'm really tired of this discussion altogether. We can see we will not agree here, I guess its back to the drawing board.

7sm

 

[arnisador]

Well, we see why the problem is so tough to solve. Everyone wants people to be fed, but everyone has a very different opinion of what's the best way to see it done. If economics was a true science, we could predict the outcome of various strategies just as we plot the courses of planets...but that ain't so.

 

[sgtmac_46]

"Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude."

"The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

"The man who asks of freedom anything other than itself is born to be a slave."

"Americans are so enamoured of equality they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom."

"The principal cause of disparities in the fortunes of men is intelligence."

Alexis de Tocqueville

 

[shesulsa]

The sad, sad truth is that private charity is never enough to solve the enormous problem of mass poverty and hunger. It never has been and it never will be, because humans are selfish folk. The welfare system has solved much of the abject poverty in this nation and, again, is NOT a perfect system.

But then, what IS a perfect system? I think this depends on each person's point of view. Some of us see value in extending a hand to our fellow man, can see that some people will never be able to work, welcome those spiritual rewards one gets when giving selflessly - others just think it's more damaging to help people in this position, even when they can't work it seems they are still supposed to get a job or live with a relative or mooch from a church rather than the working populus at large. Some of us try to work all angles.

There is no perfect solution but for those who have to give. What a damn shame we must be forced to.

 

[bushi jon]

I have statement we should not be feeding people we should be teaching them how to feed themselves. Welfare may be good as a short term for a small% of the people but in the long term it will destroy us. Welfare has been abused just like ssi has been abused and we need to fix it then replace it.

 

[BlueDragon1981]

Social Security has been abused by the government....if they would not take out "loans" from it then they would not have all these IOU's to it. It should have never been allowed to be borrowed from and and it should have been put into some type of interest baring account. The government has destroyed that system themselves more than anything else.

So you don't need to feed children and elderly. Like I said before an overwhelming majority are children and elderly who are on the system. The next percentage is the disabled. People that can work make up a very small percentage of who is on welfare.

Cash assistance has a 5 year MAX. You can only attend the doctor 18 times a year....and they want you to get a referral to go to the ER. Sorry if someone has an emergency I'm not going to bother calling the doctor and trying to get them to give a referral. Food Stamps can only be used on FOOD. Most states are going to a card based system that seperates things that are not able to be purchased from the card. If people abuse this then it is their own fault. Not the fault of the ones who have had a very tough break and are trying to get back on their feet. The abuses of this system are costing less than the abuses in government crap. Like the bridge to nowhere..and many other things. Maybe look at that and stop those items, then see what else needs cut. I will never be in favor of cutting this system until the government quits spending on useless crap.

 

[BlueDragon1981]

Oh yeah and to illistrate another point about gov....the PA government tried to vote themselves a 54% raise in pay....that comes from the PA tax dollars. Yet they are having all these arguements on what to cut and how to ballance the budget......I know this is only state level but it is a good example of the stupidity of government sometimes.

 

[Ray]

It is wrong for the government to take our money and give it to others. But it is necessary for the gov't to do so because we aren't taking care of others of our own volition.

 

[7starmantis]

It is wrong for the government to take our money and give it to others. But it is necessary for the gov't to do so because we aren't taking care of others of our own volition.

But do two wrongs really make a right?

7sm

 

[Ray]

But do two wrongs really make a right?

Don't ask me---I'm sure there are some truely hungry people who {through no fault of their own} have been fed via welfare---ask them.

 

[7starmantis]

Don't ask me---I'm sure there are some truely hungry people who {through no fault of their own} have been fed via welfare---ask them.

Thats not what I'm getting at. Its feeding people thats not in debate. But I was curious as to your supporting something you believe is wrong. Just curious as to how you see that.

7sm

 

[bushi jon]

The goverment is not evil the people we vote in maybe.

 

[Ray]

But I was curious as to your supporting something you believe is wrong. Just curious as to how you see that.

I wouldn't call myself a supporter of gov't welfare. There are lots of things that the gov't spends tax money on that I don't support, but I haven't given much time trying to change it.

On the other hand, I hate to see people who are starving and homeless; I had two brothers that recently died on the streets and I'd say it was their own fault...but there are plenty of people who are in poverty through no fault of their own.

There's disagreement on how best to help people and sometimes even if people should be helped in the first place. I've got to believe that someone, somewhere is really needy and is being helped by welfare - gov't welfare may be a long way from perfect, but it's something I'm not going to try to put an end to--unless I could come up with a better way to help those who need help.

 

[bushi jon]

I would have to say this has been a good forum. I am glad to see there was no name calling.

 

[Loki]

I live in a welfare state, and I think it has it's merits and demerits.

A famous journalist recently conveyed an interesting calculation he called the "Falafel Calculation" that showed that a family of five earning one minimum wage salary a month and living in the street, still can't afford a month's-worth of the minimum requirement of falafel for everyone (falafel being one of the cheapest available foods that require no preparation). And if you can't afford falafel, you can't afford to learn, get an education, and you find yourself stuck in the same cycle. Should these people not be given welfare?

In contrast, we have the orthodox religious, who choose a life of studying the bible under government sponsorship. These people don't get an education, don't work, don't serve in the army like everyone else, and answer every criterion for the description "parasite". Should these people be given welfare?

All in all, I think welfare should be carefully regulated, used only when needed and not dispensed like chocolate bunnies on Easter.