Weight lifting useless?

[still learning]

Hello, Look at Bruce Lee's body? He must have done something right? and it ain't from reading Matt Fury's book!

The right amount of combination is best..do you agree? and everyone's body and physcial make-up is different and each one will require it's own program and what that person wants' it to be.

It is nice to be as strong as an ape? ....Are you thinking of Planets of the Apes?

When I was younger ,working as a Carpenter Apprentice, after a while you can swing a 20oz hammer and pound 16 penny nails with three strokes, almost all day long.

Today lucky I can hit the nail..................Aloha

 

[Simon Curran]

At the end of the day, I think it all comes down to personal preference.
For myself, I did (naiive as I was...) buy the Furey book, and I did get a lot out of it, but I don't really follow his regime any more.
I still train only bodyweight exercises, I haven't touched weights in years, but that's not to say that I am opposed to the practice, I run a lot and do lots of pushups, sit ups, pull ups, dips etc, but I also have a very physical job (I can often be found loading shipping containers with 50kg sacks all day...) and I have found that for me this provides all the strength and fitness I personally need, but that goes back to point one, different strokes for different folks...

 

[Jonathan Randall]

I've been curious, having never had the pleasure of experiencing basic training, why would you guess that traditional resistance training is generally excluded from the regiment?
Just curious.

Because the emphasis is upon group activities such as calisthenics in unison, running and confidence courses (obstacle courses). Also, the set-up time for weight training would be too great and body weight exercises such as pull-ups are more applicable, I believe.

 

[samurai69]

just found this clip of the worlds strongest man

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/73514/worlds_strongest_man/

still able to move well

 

[rutherford]

At the end of the day, I think it all comes down to personal preference.

I think there's a higher level beyond Personal Preference. In the RMAX philosphy it's called Intuitive Training. Basically, listening to your body and developing the attributes and athletic sophstication you personally desire and need to succeed in your own goals and area of performance.

This comes from study and developing a kinesthetic sense of what movements and training do to effect change and growth in a safe and efficient manner.

Because the emphasis is upon group activities such as calisthenics in unison, running and confidence courses (obstacle courses). Also, the set-up time for weight training would be too great and body weight exercises such as pull-ups are more applicable, I believe.

Not having been through Basic, I think a lot of the excercise is devoted to training a soldier to be able to push through fatigue and activate a second wind. This is both a development of mental toughness as well as a physical response.

 

[JamesYazell]

Actually the site claims Bruce Lee did not lift weights. As far as functionality, Matt Furey means combat.

 

[Shirt Ripper]

Because the emphasis is upon group activities such as calisthenics in unison, running and confidence courses (obstacle courses). Also, the set-up time for weight training would be too great and body weight exercises such as pull-ups are more applicable, I believe.

That's what I figured.

Actually the site claims Bruce Lee did not lift weights. As far as functionality, Matt Furey means combat.

Didn't he talk about it...include it in a few of his books and stuff? Wasn't that how he hurt his back (deadlifting wrong)?

 

[JamesYazell]

I actually have no idea, Im just stating what Matt Furey's site claimed.

 

[Shirt Ripper]

I actually have no idea, Im just stating what Matt Furey's site claimed.

Fair enough. I am pretty sure of it. Dude actually did some specialized grip stuff which is kinda my thing so that's cool.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

it's all about your goals.

you can get plenty strong without lifting weights, but if you want to get ridiculously strong, or if you want bulk, you need to use those tools. fury's product is good for folks with goals congruent with the benefits of his product. if you have something else in mind, then you need to use something else.

 

[Brother John]

Bodtweight calestinics are great for conditioning. So is weight training. Matt Furey is wrong and just trying to sell his product.

DING-DING-DING-DING-DING.........
that's the CORRECT answer!!
X-actly

Your Brother
John

 

[Brother John]

When he trained under a japanese wrestler he says the man(can't think of his name) explained that weight lifting creates cosmetic muscles. They look good but do not have the functunality that muscles developed from calestinics would.

Not true.

Weight training is a form of resistance training.
Bodyweight training is a form of resistance training.
It is the methods used that show if you're just trying to increase muscular aesthetics (looks) or strength/endurance.

Actually: intelligent use of freeweights can NOT be beaten in developing really great levels of muscular strength. Body weight movements won't even come close. BUT: Body weight movements do better at developing muscular endurance...because generally you can get a greater number of muscles firing off at the same time, whereas ....when using freeweights... you are usually restricted in the plane of action and thus the number of muscle groups you can use at the same time. That's why the best "Strength" movements with weights are those that use the greatest number of moving parts..... Squat, Deadlift, Bench-Press, Military Press..etc.

I think that the bodyweight exercises that work the abs/lower back and especially the legs are more advantageous for most martial artists than their free-weight counterparts. The reason I think this is because of "Exercise/USE fit". This is the principle that states that the best exercises to use for a muscle or muscle group are actions that approximate the nature or manner in which they will be used.
In the Body-weight movements you are moving your body around with your legs and torso strength... just like we do when fighting or drilling in our martial arts.
just something to think about.

IF calisthenics was superior to freeweights then why would ALL professional athletic trainers for ALL sports make such use of freeweights across the board?
Look to the pro's to see who knows.

Your Brother
John

 

[Marginal]

and we dont swing through the trees

what a stupid comment

It's the same line of reasoning Matt's using to justify bodyweight only training. So yeah, it's supposed to sound stupid.

 

[luigi_m_]

I'm getting off the weights at the end of March, and going on to body-weight only exercises. I know they are still resistance exercises, but I have had a change of heart about "pumping iron". I used to think I could really help my MA with it, but it actually seems to be hindering my performance.

Another way of looking at it, is you are never really going to need to bicep curl type action (I'm sure there are a few times) in a competition or a fight, whereas something like pistol squats may come in useful [some-bloody-how]

In my mind (although this was said to me...), if you are on a body-weight routine, you will allways know how to work out, as all you really need is a ledge of some variety, and possibly a chin-up bar, whereas if you only use weights, if you don't have access to a gym for a month [travelling, holiday, work, you're a paleontologist], you won't have the means to exercise.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on it, criticise me if you must...

 

[Shirt Ripper]

but it actually seems to be hindering my performance.

Then your doing it wrong. A common problem. As a martial artist I would do squats (and variations), cleans, overhead press, rows. Don't "pump iron" in the sense of how most folks think of it...nothing wrong with that...just silly if you are an athlete.

Curls are pretty lame. I do cheat curls because I'd rather not blow out a bicep flipping a tire.

 

[luigi_m_]

Wel, I was following a routine set out by some MA dude, don't remember his name though...

No, I mean I have lost my explosive strength through lifting weights, but some of my friends in MA used to lift, and now don't. I prefer body-weight exercises anyway, more fun, and less sore after...

 

[samurai69]

It's the same line of reasoning Matt's using to justify bodyweight only training. So yeah, it's supposed to sound stupid.

Isnt this the matt furey that talks about kettlebells...........arent they weights????

 

[samurai69]

No, I mean I have lost my explosive strength through lifting weights,...

Really is a case of not training properly



.but its your training so stick to what you enjoy

 

[Brother John]

Wel, I was following a routine set out by some MA dude, don't remember his name though...

No, I mean I have lost my explosive strength through lifting weights, but some of my friends in MA used to lift, and now don't. I prefer body-weight exercises anyway, more fun, and less sore after...

According to the study of exercise physiology, the two absolute best ways to increase "explosive strength" are through:
#1: Plyometrics.
#2: Weight Training.

So if weight training actually caused a decrease in your explosive strength, you were doing something very wrong...I'd dare to say.

Also: a muscular exercise (resistance training) used to increase muscular strength and/or endurance will cause soreness (due to the break down of glycogen and the build up of lactic acid). IF a resistance routine does NOT do these things, than neither your strength nor endurance is being pushed and therefore cannot produce results in either of these two areas. IF body-weight alone exercises are not producing muscular soreness...maybe you need to go back to weights OR increase the intensity w/in those exercises. W/out occasionally producing soreness your muscles will not NEED to adapt to accomodate and overcome the new demands and stresses; as these are what causes a neuro-muscular/chemical change w/in the cells themselves.

Professional trainers of Olympic and professional athletes all agree that training with free-weights is the number one means of effectively increasing muscular strength, size, density, elasticity, durability and endurance.
IF bodyweight alone routines were ACTUALLY that good....then the pro's would be using them a lot...
and they aren't.
NOT that they aren't good. I think they are, but I think they should be used in conjunction with free-weights to produce the best effects.

Your Brother
John

 

[Zujitsuka]

Weight training is far from useless.

The key is you have to clearly define your goals.

I actually bought Matt Furey's book a few years ago, and did get great results from what he calls his "Royal Court" exercises. Hey, they are indeed great exercises.

Bodyweight exercises are good for developing relative strength (i.e. being strong compared to others of similar size) and mucular endurance, but there are different types of strength that require external resistance (i.e. weights) to develop. For instance to develop maximal absolute strength, you would have to do lifts with heavy weight (low reps, 2 to 4).

Most athletes have a periodized approach to there training. Here is an example of how it might look for a martial artist:

• General physical preparedness -- emphasis on bodyweight exercises to increase relative strength; also core and stability exercises
• Lift moderately heavy weights (Approx. 70% of the 1RM or 3RM -- one rep maximum or theree rep maximum. This is the amount of weight the trainee can lift with good form one to three times successfully) to stimulate bulk/lean muscle development (hypertrophy). This will generally include bodybuilding protocols. Here is what most people identify as weight training and if you stay here for too long, it may have a negative effect on your martial arts training. You may become too big, too slow, and lose flexibility.
• Lift heavy weights to deveop absolute strength. Here you lift 90% to 95% of your 1RM or 3RM. Here the reps are kept very low. Examples of the lifts to do would be the the deadlift, squat, chest press, and the side press. Certain bodyweight exercises like pistols, one-arm push ups, handstand pushups, and one-arm chinups also develop brute-like strength.
• Develop power/speed/rate of force by doing quick lifts with light weight (30% of the 1RM or 3RM). Examples would be the snatch, dumbbell swings, clean and press. Plyometric exercises would also be included here. I'm talking about exercises like medicine ball throws, box jumps and such.

It is important to take adequate rest periods between sets. Please do your own research to learn more about how much rest should be taken between sets. It will depend on the attribute your trying to develop and how much weight you're working with.

Here are some good places to start:

www.mikemahler.com

www.dragondoor.com

www.workingclassfitness.com

Remember first and foremost that your are a martial athlete and dojo/dojang/kwoon time takes priority over the gym. That is to say skills refinement takes priority of weight training or other exercise.

Mix it up and keep it interesting. Variety is the spice of life. Besides, if you do the same thing over and over again, you subject yourself to negative returns on your investment and overuse injuries.

Peace & blessings,