"We know how to treat a lady."

[celtic_crippler]

I think their "character" is plain for all to see. Its an issue of if you think their behavior is distasteful of not.

Lets not confuse being "innocent" in the eyes of the law and "equal justice" with being a person of character.

I believe I have probably done more to uphold justice for ALL regardless of my opinion of their beliefs or behavior than you probably have. I obey, uphold and enforce the law impartially for everybody. So DONT go assuming I dont know the difference between rape and consensual sex.

Yes I do think that their choice of sexual behavior is "low rent".."distasteful"..." and a sign of a decline in values. So what? Where have I said she is "innocent" or shouldnt be prosecuted? Or that these guys (regardless of my opinion of their behavior) were not wronged?

They should sue her and she should be arrested. I have said that numerous times but you seem to be focused on my distaste for ALL of their behavior.

At what point in our society did stating a dislike for a persons behavior AUTOMATICALLY imply some sort of bias when it comes to doing what is right? Just because some people decide to let their opinions of someones lifestyle influence their decisions when dealing with them doesnt mean that EVERYBODY does.

If you want to participate in this stuff FINE. I will still treat you like everybody else but I will still dislike what you do.

Whoa Hoss! Settle down! I'm not attacking you or your beliefs. Aside from this forum you don't know anything about me and what I've done or do; therefore, you really have no basis for comparrison.

I had thought we might drill down a bit deeper regarding the issues of this story, but I can see this strikes a personal chord so I'll let it go.

Peace. :asian:

 

[Archangel M]

Is rape and consensual group sex the same in your book?

We were fine till that line which I find both "offensive" and "distasteful". What gives you the impression that I think anything of the kind?

Im one of the guys who's job it is to figure out which is which and hope that I am doing justice for the right side. It doesn't mean that I am not allowed to think that all their behavior was distasteful.

 

[MJS]

I dont think anybody said the girl is innocent. She should be prosecuted for falsely reporting. Im just saying it's kind of funny how these guys are on the news in their suits doing interviews as if they are these upright, "god fearing" kids talking about their "gang bang".

Like I said.."contempt" for her "distaste" for them all IMO.

And I do see the humor in these guys saying "we know how to treat a lady" on the news.

It's not they way I would want any guy trying to date my daughter to define "how to treat a lady".

Funny how we each look at the "declining of our society" in different ways.

I chalk up the guys behavior to just being cocky punks. Technically, they know they didn't do anything wrong, per se, but on the other hand, bragging about it...I think they need to grow up a bit.

 

[elder999]

I Yes I do think that their choice of sexual behavior is "low rent".."distasteful"..." and a sign of a decline in values. So what? Where have I said she is "innocent" or shouldnt be prosecuted? Or that these guys (regardless of my opinion of their behavior) were not wronged?
.

Oddly enough, in this thread, you almost insist that there is no decline in society, which, I presume, would include a decline in "values," since they are societal, after all. You also point out that the things many use as an indication of that decline have always been present, and are just more advertised, and this is a valid point.

Of course, "gang-bangs" have existed as long as mankind has: it’s a biological mechanism and impulse.

THEN he is confronted with his girlfriend being a complete SLUT and the mental images of a half-dozen other guys taking turns in sequence with his willing girlfriend..

You weren’t the only one to make this kind of comment, and certainly not the only one to make that sort of judgement, and I’m not criticizing what is, essentially, a value judgment hardwired by millennia of conditioning.

And yet, somehow, if the roles were reversed,, and some guy had managed to have sex with more than three willing partners in succession, and pictures were taken, and the dalliance became known, you might call that fellow a "complete slut" and a "skank," but most probably would not. He’d be the object of envy, admiration and speculation, perhaps offered contracts for porn and a guest spot on Maury Povich or Jerry Springer, for doing exactly the same thing that girl did.... Hell, he’d be a hero to some just for getting four women disrobed at the same time, never mind having sex with all of them....

....though it would be more difficult for most guys to accomplish, physically......it’s still indicative of a conditioned double standard, though....

Come on now, we would never use ropes while we take turns having sex with a woman in a bathroom. What do you think we are, degenerates or something?

On the one hand, yes, there is some humor in the "we know how to treat a lady" comment. There’s irony as well, and it certainly indicates what others have expressed, that,somehow, this was no lady.

Interestingly, there’s nothing in the story to indicate that the woman lied to conceal events from her boyfriend-there’s no mention of a boyfriend at all. It’s just as likely that she made the accusation to conceal the truth from herself, such is the social conditioning attached to such behavior.

Once, when we all lived in the forest, "gang-bangs" were commonplace. If a woman had sex with multiple partners, because sperm is competitive, she would have a better chance of receiving "the best", biologically speaking, from a larger and more diverse pool from which to select genetic material. This is why, biologically speaking, women are, compared to men, slow to arouse, slow to orgasm, and capable of having multiple orgasms..

Men are fast to arouse, fast to orgasm, and normally have a refractory period between orgasms. We’re also complete sluts, biologically inclined to have sex with as many women as much as possible, This ensures a diversity in the spread of our genes. Thus, the sexual tendencies of each gender are predetermined effects of biology, and natural selection at it’s best.

We also have thousands of years of societal conditioning-part of adaptive strategies like marriage, whereby a woman can ensure the protection of her offspring and a man can ensure that they are, in fact, his offspring, by forming a family unit, rather than the sort of tribal units that existed in primitive times, when this sort of sexual behavior was probably the norm. Because of this social conditioning, rather than recognize that the woman involved has-whether because of drugs, alcohol,ovulation, the simple desire to truly scratch that itch, or some combination thereof-slipped free of her social conditioning and regressed to an earlier mode of sexual behavior driven entirely by biological impulses- we label her a "slut" and a "skank" and say "how terrible for her boyfriend."

And it's likely that after the night's festivities were over, there reverted back to their social conditioning, and, oddly enough, treated her like a lady: maybe helped her clean up, got her clothes for her, got her a drink or a cab ride, or escorted her back to her dorm/dorm room. Odd and uncomfortable, but probable.....

 

[chrispillertkd]

From the article:

"Her actions and her demeanor depict a very troubled young woman in need of much help," Rice said.

In more ways than one, it seems.

The men in this scenario are pathetic, but the woman obviously has her own problems.

Pax,

Chris

 

[CoryKS]

On the one hand, yes, there is some humor in the "we know how to treat a lady" comment. There’s irony as well, and it certainly indicates what others have expressed, that,somehow, this was no lady.

Interestingly, there’s nothing in the story to indicate that the woman lied to conceal events from her boyfriend-there’s no mention of a boyfriend at all. It’s just as likely that she made the accusation to conceal the truth from herself, such is the social conditioning attached to such behavior.

This was a followup story, so it didn't have all the details. Read the link I gave Don:

Investigators said that a video of the sexual encounter shows Ndonye consenting to the sex romp. Ndonye later recanted her allegations of rape, confessing to police that she had made up the charges because she had been afraid to tell her boyfriend about the illicit bathroom encounter.

Once, when we all lived in the forest, "gang-bangs" were commonplace. If a woman had sex with multiple partners, because sperm is competitive, she would have a better chance of receiving "the best", biologically speaking, from a larger and more diverse pool from which to select genetic material. This is why, biologically speaking, women are, compared to men, slow to arouse, slow to orgasm, and capable of having multiple orgasms..

Yes, and now we flatter ourselves as being civilized. The very meaning of which is that we don't act on every animilistic urge that we get. You don't get to call yourself civilized and go reptilian everytime you catch a whiff of something. Are we not Men? Yet that is the nature of Taveras' complaint.

"We were treated like animals," he said.

Well, dude, if the shoe fits.

I agree that he's perfectly within his rights to engage in any sort of consensual act with whomever he wants. Doesn't mean I can't point and laugh. He wants it both ways - he wants to indulge his base animal instincts, but expects people to see him as a gentleman. Um, no.

 

[elder999]

Yes, and now we flatter ourselves as being civilized. The very meaning of which is that we don't act on every animilistic urge that we get. You don't get to call yourself civilized and go reptilian everytime you catch a whiff of something. Are we not Men? Yet that is the nature of Taveras' complaint.

"Flatter ourselves," indeed. The notion that we're "civilized" is a conceit, no more.

And the fact is, it's not "going reptilian"-it is, in fact, going primate.


Are we not primates? :lfao:

 

[CoryKS]

"Flatter ourselves," indeed. The notion that we're "civilized" is a conceit, no more.

And the fact is, it's not "going reptilian"-it is, in fact, going primate.

Yeah, I thought about going back and changing that but, **** it, as long as I spelled it right. I hate typos. :rofl:

I agree, it's a conceit. But if you want to score points ("I am not an animal"), you have to play.

 

[Tez3]

As a rule I've generally found that men will treat a woman how she treats herself.

 

[grydth]

Individuals who falsely report crimes are pond scum, and cannot be condemned forcefully enough. Somebody who would subject 4 innocent people to felony prosecution as a reputation saving ploy deserves a long stay in the concrete motel. If one is so very concerned about reputation and boyfriends.... how about just not doing that with 4 guys at a time?

It is interesting that authorities have not released the woman's name due to, "concerns for her safety." How about concerns for the safety of the 4 men (and their families) who were falsely accused of rape? Given that the woman in question is clearly not a victim of a sexual crime, her name should be released as well. It seems there are two sets of media rules here...... perhaps it would be better to wait a bit longer in every case before releasing names......

I can see where the police had to move out quickly. With evidence of a violent group rape, had they not made quick arrests, they faced the prospect of additional women being attacked.

As far as recording this historic event on a cell phone camera..... the best that can be said is that it is like Monica Lewinski's dress - who saves things like that - but then, having done so seems to have saved them...

 

[chrispillertkd]

Once, when we all lived in the forest, "gang-bangs" were commonplace.

Interesting. Where do you get this information? Is it proven or is it a theory?

I'd be very interested in seeing proof for this assertion, as well as some timeline about when in the evolutionary process all of these dionysian romps occured.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Tez3]

Interesting. Where do you get this information? Is it proven or is it a theory?

I'd be very interested in seeing proof for this assertion, as well as some timeline about when in the evolutionary process all of these dionysian romps occured.

Pax,

Chris

I'll take you for a sight seeing trip around the training area here, that sort of behaviour is commonplace around here rofl!

 

[Archangel M]

Once, when we all lived in the forest, "gang-bangs" were commonplace.

Really. Do our primate cousins do the same? Conceit or not, Civil society/behavior (enforced by law..another civil "conceit") is what allows us to live in peace 99% of the time.

The "Once, when we all lived in the forest, "gang-bangs" were commonplace."..thing smacks of the typical over-intellectualized explanations for criminality I hear from criminologists and sociologists. Yeah, yeah we are all "animals", but THIS animal is interested in maintaining the "conceit" of civilization for the good of us all.

 

[Tez3]

Gang bangs when taking place in private by consenting adults is hardly criminal behaviour. reckless perhaps, immoral more than likely but it's not criminal.
Bt the way 'domestic' cats do indulge in multiple partners, a female cat will mate with as many males as possible. This means the male cannot kill the kittens as he isn't sure if they are his or not, lions of course when a male takes over a pride will kill all cubs not his then impregnate the females to make sure the offspring are his. So the theory of a human female taking multiple partners to stop dominant males killing her offspring is a very feasible one. It's not a situation where morals are concerned its a pragmatic solution to ensure the survival of offspring. We tend to forget I think the sex between two people is generally intended to perpetuate the species rather than give the preachers something to make people feel guilty about. For many discussing sex in this aspect is uncomfortable.

 

[Archangel M]

No one is (or has) calling it "criminal behavior". No one here has said that this "woman" is innocent or not deserving of punishment. Nobody has said that these guys were not "wronged" or deserve any punishment.

My personal opinion is that its "base behavior". Apparently some people dont like that.

Tough.

 

[Tez3]

No one is (or has) calling it "criminal behavior". No one here has said that this "woman" is innocent or not deserving of punishment. Nobody has said that these guys were not "wronged" or deserve any punishment.

My personal opinion is that its "base behavior". Apparently some people dont like that.

Tough.

A lot of what humans do is 'base' behavior'. Many decry martial arts because they consider fighting to be base.

This in your post gave the impression you considered 'bang ganging' to be criminal behaviour though.
" The "Once, when we all lived in the forest, "gang-bangs" were commonplace."..thing smacks of the typical over-intellectualized explanations for criminality I hear from criminologists and sociologists............ ."

 

[Archangel M]

I could just as easily said that it smacks of the typical over-intellectualized explanations for base behavior like....

A lot of what humans do is 'base' behavior'. Many decry martial arts because they consider fighting to be base.

Same Same

 

[Tez3]

I could just as easily said that it smacks of the typical over-intellectualized explanations for base behavior like....



Same Same

Well that gives a different impression.

 

[elder999]

Really. Do our primate cousins do the same?

In fact, our closest ones-chimpanzees and bonobos-do. Bonobos actually copulate regardless of whether they're in estrus or not, and are thought to be our closest primate relatives. Their sexual behavior is rather extraordinary-in fact, it's quite a bit like ours, without going into more thread drift.

Conceit or not, Civil society/behavior (enforced by law..another civil "conceit") is what allows us to live in peace 99% of the time.

The "Once, when we all lived in the forest, "gang-bangs" were commonplace."..thing smacks of the typical over-intellectualized explanations for criminality I hear from criminologists and sociologists. Yeah, yeah we are all "animals", but THIS animal is interested in maintaining the "conceit" of civilization for the good of us all.

And I'm not interested in gang bangs, or excusing such behavior, but regression to type is an explanation, not an excuse, and hardly "over-intellectualized." To say that it's "base behavior" is not far off the mark, and it's outside societal norms, but-once one overcomes the "ickiness" factor-is neither inexplicable, nor, for those who choose to practice it, wrong-or outside their norms.

The girl was wrong to participate if she was in a "committed" relationship that made no provision for such behavior, and wrong to falsely accuse the young men of rape to try and conceal it. Participating in a gang-bang, though, is not "wrong"-as evidenced by the charges against the young men being dropped when it was determined to be consensual.

The young men, of course, did nothing "wrong."

And yes, while we like to maintain the conceit of civilization, we all act like the animals we are from time to time.

 

[blindsage]

As a rule I've generally found that men will treat a woman how she treats herself.

I would like to agree with this, but it doesn't really explain the continuing high incidence of sexual assault in our societies.